129 replies to this topic

[blacksheiladog]

I'm a product developer and engineer by training, and was a fellow acne sufferer - I'm much clearer now - Blue light has worked for me (I used an array of 420nm bulbs, optimizing power and placement), I've decided to develop a powerful home friendly blue light machine with performance comparable to machines you would find a doctors office, but at a fraction of the price. I know what's important to me in this product, but I'd like to hear back from others so I can develop a product with features that a most important to the the highest number of users. I hope to have the prototype complete in four months. I will use your input in my design...here is where I'd like feedback. Please answer as many questions below as you can, and if you do not know the answer, please take your best guess. This will really help me design a product that will satsify your needs, and you will see the results of your efforts on this forum in the form of a great new product in a few months. :

1. What are the most important features to you in any acne fighting product?
2. What would be the most important features to you in blue light home treatment?
3. Where would you be most likely use the product (in a common area, bed, or other?)
4. What percentage of the time would the product be used on your face versus other parts of your body?
5. What other parts of your body would you use this product on?
6. How many minutes per day, and days per week are you wiling to perform light treatment at home?
7. How much power do you believe is necissary to match the power of machines like Omnilux and other equipment found in a physician's office?
8. How much are you willing to pay for the one time purchase of a product that works, (versus a series of office or clinical treaments) with comparable peformance to machines like Omnilux and other equipment found in a physician's office?

Thanks,
Jeff
Please feel free to respond to this survey directly by mailing your responses to [removed]

I encourage your effort to produce a product to use at home. From what I know of why the beautyskin lamp is not liked includes the difficulty of sitting in front of it, and the need to turn the face to get treatment light on both sides. An ideal system will provide wrap around light, so that the majority who use it on their face will get full treatment on the entire face all the time. As to my first comment on beautyskin, this device should be easily useable while lying down on a bed or the floor, so will need an arm or two arms that extend the light out from a base, and can be adjustable to a height above the floor or a bed. I cannot speak to using it for other than the face, and that would be a challenge if one device was to serve the body and face. Cost needs to be below $500, which sounds high, but is less than one 8 week session at a doctor office using clearlight. I think the research on this should include finding the actual light intensity that is achieved by a clearlight treatment and finding an alternative that comes close to it. From what I know, given current technology, you are either looking at metal halide with dichrotic filters to give only 415 nm out or compact fluors, as they are much cooler and allow the user to get closer to the source. There is come evidence that red light around 660nm is beneficial, but would increase cost maybe too much to include such light. -Dan

[countdown2failure]

UPDATE: This marks the end of week one of using the eBay lamps referred to in my previous post. As to be expected it is far too soon to make any assertions as to the effectiveness of the treatment. Curiously though, I expected a temporary worsening of acne, which is of course to be expected at the onset of any new treatment, and I really didn't experience any worsening or clearing per-say. Well, over night last night I had a flare-up, but I'm thinking that was just due to an increase in stress, though I could be wrong. I certainly have not experienced any clearing yet, but then, I certainly wouldn't expect to for at least a two or three more weeks. So yeah, I just wanted to make this update on time, like I said I would. But really there isn't much of anything to report yet. I want to say that I do think this blue light therapy will work, because I can actually feel the light doing something in my skin, it feels rather strange. Anyway, I will probably have more to report in my next update at the end of week two. Until then, happy holidays everyone!

[blacksheiladog]

UPDATE: This marks the end of week one of using the eBay lamps referred to in my previous post. As to be expected it is far too soon to make any assertions as to the effectiveness of the treatment. Curiously though, I expected a temporary worsening of acne, which is of course to be expected at the onset of any new treatment, and I really didn't experience any worsening or clearing per-say. Well, over night last night I had a flare-up, but I'm thinking that was just due to an increase in stress, though I could be wrong. I certainly have not experienced any clearing yet, but then, I certainly wouldn't expect to for at least a two or three more weeks. So yeah, I just wanted to make this update on time, like I said I would. But really there isn't much of anything to report yet. I want to say that I do think this blue light therapy will work, because I can actually feel the light doing something in my skin, it feels rather strange. Anyway, I will probably have more to report in my next update at the end of week two. Until then, happy holidays everyone!

Make sure you are not getting any tanning effects, which would indicate some UV component. Does your face show any signs of tanning? There should not be any and that's important for sure! And I know you are being careful to protect your eyes. Haven't heard anyone say they feel something in their skin from blue light, so want to be sure you are not having any effects from being too close to the bulb (heat) or too much time under the lamp per day (although we don't know of any issues like this yet). The seller suggests 15 min per day and I think you said you were going to do more than that, but maybe stick with his recommendation for now? Happy holidays and thanks for the update.

[blacksheiladog]

Here's what it says in the ebay product instruction guide:

Thoroughly clean infected area with mild cleanser
Lie under the lamp with infected area exposed to the blue light for 15 minutes at least two times a week and up to once a day. No product should be used on skin while using blue light therapy.
Use as needed once acne is under control
Acne may worsen when first using the lamp. This is due to the bacteria being rapidly destroyed.
Use tanning goggles or sunglasses for eye protection
Studies show that results last up to 8 months when used 4-12 weeks.


Here's what the ebay product instruction guide says in "Disclaimers"

Discontinue treatments and consult a doctor is any adverse reaction occurs
Persons hypersensitive to any amount of light should not use the product
Clear Technologies does not make any medical claims

[hapleaMcGill]

Ok, small news, maybe usefull:

1. I bought two lights from sciart red and blue. I used them for about 2 months and it DOES help, but i still have occasional breakouts. I sit pretty close, maybe 10 cm away, and try to cover all the face by sitting in different angles for 10 mins each. The net result is that it DOES help (i have previously tried accutane twice, it works but after 18 months or so it comes back, albeit a lot less).

2. I did the blu-u thing with levulan for 14 minutes (1 hour with levulan on, 14 mins under the light). I got home and i immediately sat under my sciart blue lamp to see how different the feeling is, WITH levulan applied (washed off, but the effect is active for 24 hrs). This way i could feel the difference in intensity directly on my skin (it hurts a bit). Maybe the overall intensity is 80% of the one from the blu-u sources. I'm guessing that in order to cover the whole face area, one would need about 5-7 sci-art lamps. NOTE: the key ingredient is Levulan. I will get a price quote soon (unofficial) but it should be around 100$ per tube. The doctor said he paid 200$ but i don't believe him (he charges 300 per treatment). He also paid 8000 for the blu-u light and that i know it true. If you have the money, the blu-u is on ebay for about 5000. Totally overpriced.

The tubes they use on the blu-u are labeled: F34T8 | UBL | 36| U
And underneath it says 0134 UBL UltraBlue.

I looked them up and i found the patent (uh, oh, we made a lamp with u-shaped fluorescent lights and we must patent it, it is such an unthought of idea...) but can't quite find the lamps. I also tried (very little) on global spec but nothing came up.

Bottom line: the lamps i tried work, but by themselves don't do wonders. I THINK that the lamp itself DOES not matter that much IF you can find Levulan (DUSA pharm). This is because levulan essentially increases the sensitivity of skin by A LOT and then you have a 24-hour window (i had to avoid any kind of strong light for 24 hours) to apply blue light.

One common misunderstanding people have: the 420 peak is not SECONDARY to the one at a previous frequency (i thing 280?) in the sense that is it lower. It is a second peak, which means it has the same value. The articles that say this have been misinterpreted by people on this forum. Please read them again.

So try to find a price/way to buy levulan, get 2-3 lamps (whatever you use, i have not tried anything else, but acnelamp seems, from the pictures, crappy) and do it yourself, but DO NOT exceed 18 minutes or so. In fact, it is not really bad if you do, but they use more than 18 minutes to treat skin cancers, so it will be pretty painful and useless.

Also, i really thought about actintic lights. From the specs, THEY SEEM TO HAVE HIGH UV. So sheiladog i think, PLEASE don't expose your daughter to them. Don't assume anything, better call the makes or something. No pun intended, but i find that somewhat irresponsible. UV causes cancer, so any assumptions like this could be really bad, especially on children's skin.


Anyways, i'll see how the blu-u thing comes in the end and let you know.
Oh, and i also started taking antibiotics Mynociclyne ) and using a 10% Benzoyl soap, sot results will be mixed.

[blacksheiladog]

Ok, small news, maybe usefull:

1. I bought two lights from sciart red and blue. I used them for about 2 months and it DOES help, but i still have occasional breakouts. I sit pretty close, maybe 10 cm away, and try to cover all the face by sitting in different angles for 10 mins each. The net result is that it DOES help (i have previously tried accutane twice, it works but after 18 months or so it comes back, albeit a lot less).

2. I did the blu-u thing with levulan for 14 minutes (1 hour with levulan on, 14 mins under the light). I got home and i immediately sat under my sciart blue lamp to see how different the feeling is, WITH levulan applied (washed off, but the effect is active for 24 hrs). This way i could feel the difference in intensity directly on my skin (it hurts a bit). Maybe the overall intensity is 80% of the one from the blu-u sources. I'm guessing that in order to cover the whole face area, one would need about 5-7 sci-art lamps. NOTE: the key ingredient is Levulan. I will get a price quote soon (unofficial) but it should be around 100$ per tube. The doctor said he paid 200$ but i don't believe him (he charges 300 per treatment). He also paid 8000 for the blu-u light and that i know it true. If you have the money, the blu-u is on ebay for about 5000. Totally overpriced.

The tubes they use on the blu-u are labeled: F34T8 | UBL | 36| U
And underneath it says 0134 UBL UltraBlue.

I looked them up and i found the patent (uh, oh, we made a lamp with u-shaped fluorescent lights and we must patent it, it is such an unthought of idea...) but can't quite find the lamps. I also tried (very little) on global spec but nothing came up.

Bottom line: the lamps i tried work, but by themselves don't do wonders. I THINK that the lamp itself DOES not matter that much IF you can find Levulan (DUSA pharm). This is because levulan essentially increases the sensitivity of skin by A LOT and then you have a 24-hour window (i had to avoid any kind of strong light for 24 hours) to apply blue light.

One common misunderstanding people have: the 420 peak is not SECONDARY to the one at a previous frequency (i thing 280?) in the sense that is it lower. It is a second peak, which means it has the same value. The articles that say this have been misinterpreted by people on this forum. Please read them again.

So try to find a price/way to buy levulan, get 2-3 lamps (whatever you use, i have not tried anything else, but acnelamp seems, from the pictures, crappy) and do it yourself, but DO NOT exceed 18 minutes or so. In fact, it is not really bad if you do, but they use more than 18 minutes to treat skin cancers, so it will be pretty painful and useless.

Also, i really thought about actintic lights. From the specs, THEY SEEM TO HAVE HIGH UV. So sheiladog i think, PLEASE don't expose your daughter to them. Don't assume anything, better call the makes or something. No pun intended, but i find that somewhat irresponsible. UV causes cancer, so any assumptions like this could be really bad, especially on children's skin.


Anyways, i'll see how the blu-u thing comes in the end and let you know.
Oh, and i also started taking antibiotics Mynociclyne ) and using a 10% Benzoyl soap, sot results will be mixed.

Very good information.. Yes, one must be careful to avoid UV sources, but if a light has UV components, you will have tanning begin to result, and that should be evident to the user (just as you would see after going to a tanning booth). In my first pages of this thread, I give the spectrum for the Actinic 03 lights (not to be confused with Actinic with different numbers, such as 05). The spectrums show rapid drop of the light intensity at frequencies below 400 and very little below 380 nm, meaning there is no significant UV in those particular bulbs (UV begins at around 390nm or so). However, as you correctly point out, one must have a spectrum for the exact bulb one is using, to be sure! So far, no one has tried the Actinic 03s and reported back. My daughter has been using the ebay bulbs for several months, and I see her often. THere is no sign of tanning or UV effects, but I agree with you that the lights are not a cure, but simply one more tool in the fight. For my daughter, it has basically made it possible to get off antibiotics, but she does get occasional breakouts, even with other topical treatments. I can't comment on doing levulan at home, but please keep us informed of your results and experience. THanks, Dan

[hapleaMcGill]

To continue: the whole thing is going ok: i had really dried skin for about 3 days, now's it's within normal limits. The acne got a lot better. It's still there, but certainly less. Almost done with exams -> less stress and doing the blue+red every day, 10-15 mins each side.

[blacksheiladog]

To continue: the whole thing is going ok: i had really dried skin for about 3 days, now's it's within normal limits. The acne got a lot better. It's still there, but certainly less. Almost done with exams -> less stress and doing the blue+red every day, 10-15 mins each side.

Keep us posted and have a merry Christmas!

[iceboi]

So my cousin finally came thru and gave me the Acne Lamp the one from Ebay. The blue light one 420nm. I've been using it for a good week so far. About 20-30mins a day. First days of using it I notice a major breakout and also the skin getting very dry and flakey. Right now i'm noticing that I'm getting breakouts here and there where i never got pimples before. These are going away fast though. Like i would get a big one today and it goes away the next 2-3 days.

I'm also using the Red Light from Lightstim so that may be helping the skin. I'm using the two together and hoping for some results.

PS> I've been using the red light before this not for acne but for the face wise to speed up healing. It does work but I think the combination of blue/red makes a great team! Will have an update weekly

[countdown2failure]

UPDATE: End of week 2... Well here I am at the end of week two of using the ebay lamps. I have to say I could not have been more wrong in my last update about the flare-up thing. I have definitely experienced a worsening of acne from using the lights but that means to me that they're working. I think I may be at the tail end of the temporary worsening though (hopefully), as the breakouts seem to have died down over the last day or two.

I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any tanning effects, though I suppose it might be a little hard to tell sometimes, seeing as how my face can get rather red from the benzoil peroxide. But these lights are mostly outside the UV spectrum so I'm pretty sure we are safe. I am quite pale (when not red), I'm sure either I or someone else would have noticed if I were getting a tan. I have to admit I have been going for more like 20-25 even 30 minutes each time (once daily), but I must say I'm not experiencing any adverse reactions. If anything, I think it may be working a little better. And I think its also important to mention that I am very photosensitive, but wearing tanning goggles, and keeping my eyes shut pretty much the whole time, I'm not having any problems. When the ebay seller says in the disclaimer that light sensitive people should not use this product, I think he's probably just covering his bases. As I said my eyes and skin are very sensitive to sunlight; but utilizing proper eye protection, and a calming lotion after treatment, I haven't had any adverse reactions. No worse/additional redness or flaking apart from what the benzoil peroxide does and has always done. In fact, I am thinking about taking a break from the benzoil peroxide, I certainly don't need the aggravation it causes my skin.

I should also say that just in the last couple of days I have moved the lamps closer to my face than the original 8 inches, and I think I am getting better results. The bulbs get warm, but not hot like a normal household bulb, not close enough or hot enough to burn at all. Actually the warmth feels rather pleasant, and may even help to open the pores a bit?

The temporary worsening is normal at the onset of any new treatment as everyone knows. So all in all, I am feeling good about these lights, I think they are working. This could possibly replace or reduce my meddling with benzoil peroxide for the most part, given everything goes well. I wanted to mention for those reading this that I have "completed" several rounds of "treatment" with Accutane (and later Sotret) through the years with only moderate success. I mean I did experience periods of remission, but it always came back within a year after "completing" that round of treatment. And the side effects, ugh, don't even get me started. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in as a reference point for those reading. In the weeks to come, I will be weighing my experience with this blue light therapy against my history with Accutane (and every antibiotic and topical product). So far the lamps are in the lead with no apparent side effects, and seemingly quick to show effectiveness.

Well, thus concludes my week two progress-report. Until next week, happy holidays Dan and everyone!

[countdown2failure]

Right now i'm noticing that I'm getting breakouts here and there where i never got pimples before. These are going away fast though. Like i would get a big one today and it goes away the next 2-3 days.

Same for me with the same lamp. I guess that means its really killing some deep down bacteria. Although I hate all the new breakouts, I'm fairly impressed with the effectiveness. How close are you keeping the lamp to your face?

[blacksheiladog]

UPDATE: End of week 2... Well here I am at the end of week two of using the ebay lamps. I have to say I could not have been more wrong in my last update about the flare-up thing. I have definitely experienced a worsening of acne from using the lights but that means to me that they're working. I think I may be at the tail end of the temporary worsening though (hopefully), as the breakouts seem to have died down over the last day or two.

I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any tanning effects, though I suppose it might be a little hard to tell sometimes, seeing as how my face can get rather red from the benzoil peroxide. But these lights are mostly outside the UV spectrum so I'm pretty sure we are safe. I am quite pale (when not red), I'm sure either I or someone else would have noticed if I were getting a tan. I have to admit I have been going for more like 20-25 even 30 minutes each time (once daily), but I must say I'm not experiencing any adverse reactions. If anything, I think it may be working a little better. And I think its also important to mention that I am very photosensitive, but wearing tanning goggles, and keeping my eyes shut pretty much the whole time, I'm not having any problems. When the ebay seller says in the disclaimer that light sensitive people should not use this product, I think he's probably just covering his bases. As I said my eyes and skin are very sensitive to sunlight; but utilizing proper eye protection, and a calming lotion after treatment, I haven't had any adverse reactions. No worse/additional redness or flaking apart from what the benzoil peroxide does and has always done. In fact, I am thinking about taking a break from the benzoil peroxide, I certainly don't need the aggravation it causes my skin.

I should also say that just in the last couple of days I have moved the lamps closer to my face than the original 8 inches, and I think I am getting better results. The bulbs get warm, but not hot like a normal household bulb, not close enough or hot enough to burn at all. Actually the warmth feels rather pleasant, and may even help to open the pores a bit?

The temporary worsening is normal at the onset of any new treatment as everyone knows. So all in all, I am feeling good about these lights, I think they are working. This could possibly replace or reduce my meddling with benzoil peroxide for the most part, given everything goes well. I wanted to mention for those reading this that I have "completed" several rounds of "treatment" with Accutane (and later Sotret) through the years with only moderate success. I mean I did experience periods of remission, but it always came back within a year after "completing" that round of treatment. And the side effects, ugh, don't even get me started. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in as a reference point for those reading. In the weeks to come, I will be weighing my experience with this blue light therapy against my history with Accutane (and every antibiotic and topical product). So far the lamps are in the lead with no apparent side effects, and seemingly quick to show effectiveness.

Well, thus concludes my week two progress-report. Until next week, happy holidays Dan and everyone!

Thank you for an excellent report and I too am very hopeful for you (and others) if this works. I look forward to your next report. I should mention also that my daughter is on Yasmin birth control, and was so before the light along with antibiotics. She is now off the antibiotic, but continues on the birth control, as we are too scared to stop it! Anyway, I am continually optimistic, and your testing with closer exposure is the type of testing we need. Merry Christmas! -Dan

So my cousin finally came thru and gave me the Acne Lamp the one from Ebay. The blue light one 420nm. I've been using it for a good week so far. About 20-30mins a day. First days of using it I notice a major breakout and also the skin getting very dry and flakey. Right now i'm noticing that I'm getting breakouts here and there where i never got pimples before. These are going away fast though. Like i would get a big one today and it goes away the next 2-3 days.

I'm also using the Red Light from Lightstim so that may be helping the skin. I'm using the two together and hoping for some results.

PS> I've been using the red light before this not for acne but for the face wise to speed up healing. It does work but I think the combination of blue/red makes a great team! Will have an update weekly

[Hey Iceboi: THanks for your reporting on the ebay lamps. It's good to have more people testsing them, and if we get results, I hope to be able to initiate a program to make them more affordable to many more people. But first, we really need to know individual results, and you are helping in that regard. Merry Christmas -Dan

[loz77]

Hi everyone!!

I am new to the forum, I was trying to do a bit of research on blu-u light therapy and I stumbled across this site.
You have been posting very interesting information which is making me feel like I got ripped off with the treatment I bought. I am trying this new place called Dermacare (which I've seen another member talk about in one of the topics, can't remember which). My initial appointment was for a free consultation. I ended up buying a 3 session blu-u package for around $600!!! and got a facial with microderm that cost me an extra $180. This was split in 2 payments.

I have had acne ever since i can remember. I am 28 right now, and still suffering from it. I have never tried oral medicine and the times i've tried oral contraception I could not get over how awful they made me feel.
I have tried many topical products with no luck. I find that the thing that works best for me is to be on a strict regimen of facials and microderms every 2 weeks (which is not in my budget range). I have tried doing the facials on my own at home, but I end up with huge scars and really no improvements. My face is loaded with blackheads, and I have enlarged pores, which I guess is what causes the acne, I don't know anymore....

Anyway, I haven't had any blu-u treatments yet. My first appointment is on the 27th at which time I have to pay a remainder balance of $400!
After reading all these posts, I feel like I should skip this and buy my own lamp? My package only includes 3 treatments, from what I have read this won't even begin to show me any results. The treatments that I purchased includes the Levulan applications, does this make a difference?

I guess I am asking for some advice...Should I go through with this or should I skip the appointment and buy my own equipment?

I realize that making a $600 commitment with out doing any research first was really silly, but I guess for those of you who suffer from this, you know how desperate one can get....

I also bought a 4 step topical kit called Solvere, which really worked the 1st week, but now it doesn't seem like its doing much.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays!!

[blacksheiladog]

Hi everyone!!

I am new to the forum, I was trying to do a bit of research on blu-u light therapy and I stumbled across this site.
You have been posting very interesting information which is making me feel like I got ripped off with the treatment I bought. I am trying this new place called Dermacare (which I've seen another member talk about in one of the topics, can't remember which). My initial appointment was for a free consultation. I ended up buying a 3 session blu-u package for around $600!!! and got a facial with microderm that cost me an extra $180. This was split in 2 payments.

I have had acne ever since i can remember. I am 28 right now, and still suffering from it. I have never tried oral medicine and the times i've tried oral contraception I could not get over how awful they made me feel.
I have tried many topical products with no luck. I find that the thing that works best for me is to be on a strict regimen of facials and microderms every 2 weeks (which is not in my budget range). I have tried doing the facials on my own at home, but I end up with huge scars and really no improvements. My face is loaded with blackheads, and I have enlarged pores, which I guess is what causes the acne, I don't know anymore....

Anyway, I haven't had any blu-u treatments yet. My first appointment is on the 27th at which time I have to pay a remainder balance of $400!
After reading all these posts, I feel like I should skip this and buy my own lamp? My package only includes 3 treatments, from what I have read this won't even begin to show me any results. The treatments that I purchased includes the Levulan applications, does this make a difference?

I guess I am asking for some advice...Should I go through with this or should I skip the appointment and buy my own equipment?

I realize that making a $600 commitment with out doing any research first was really silly, but I guess for those of you who suffer from this, you know how desperate one can get....

I also bought a 4 step topical kit called Solvere, which really worked the 1st week, but now it doesn't seem like its doing much.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays!!

Hi and welcome. First a reminder. I am not a doctor! Well, there are two types of treatments, and you need to understand the differences. The Blu-U and Clearlight machines make use of intense 415 nm blue spectrum light, which has been proven to be moderately to extremely effective in about 70% of the people who use it. So one type of treatment is just to be exposed to blue light, no chemicals. This type of treatment is usually for 15 min, once per week. REsults take 4-6 weeks and the treatments usually last 8 weeks. Cost is $50-100 per treatment. Although this type of treatment works for most, it's long term effectiveness is not as proven. Some get clearing for many months. Usually there are increased breakouts in the first weeks as bacteria deep in the skin is killed by the reaction of the blue light and porphyrins with the P-Acnes bacteria. THis type of treatment is safe and non invasive.

The devices being discussed in this forum (particularly the "ebay" light) are being tested to see if we get similar clearing results, and we are in the midst of that testing with a couple of users, so Im not ready to say for sure it works, but it appears to be working for my daughter who is using two such lamps at the same time.

You also mention that your treatments includes levulinic acid (ALA) which is applied first and then results in a much deeper treatment causing signficant peeling of the surface skin. It is designed for people with moderate to severe acne as a last try before accutane. It has no long term side effects besides peeling and being unable to go in public for about 3 days up to a week or so, depending on depth of treatment.

Read some of the links like these:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...p;#entry2137826

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Hi-My-Exp...nt-t179795.html

If your three treatments include levulan applications, the cost is not out of line at all. However, it is much more difficult to endure than blue light alone, so without knowing how severe your acne is, I can't say whether you need to go to the levulan or not. The levulan treatments have provided my daughter clearing for almost a year each time she does it. They also recommend 3 treatments in a short time, but she has not done that, just once per year. She also had microderm as part of the levulan treatment, making her experience even more painful and deep.

Finally, some offices promote use of an IPL laser in addition to the above. My daughter had IPL tried a few times (not as part of the ALA/ levulan treatment), but the results were not impressive, and some very small, "white" spotting occurred in a few places where they shot the laser (which after a few years has disappeared), so I recommend extreme caution before allowing lasers to be used on your face.

You should discuss ALL the treatment options with your doctor and DO NOT rely on a technician or front desk person for information. Ask to see results such as pictures or talk with patients if they will give references.

[loz77]

Thank you so much for your reply. I will definitely check out the links you listed above.

To be honest, I don't think my acne is as bad as some of the pictures i have seen posted on this site, for example. I do get a new pimple on my face every other day or two when I am not taking care of my skin. As I said before, as long as my skin is clean (which tends not to be because my pores are like magnets for dirt!!), I seem to do fine. Again, this is with professional facials and microderms done at least every 2 weeks to a month for extended periods of time, which is not an affordable option.

When I went to this free consultation, I was looking for some alternatives to these periodic treatments, something a little bit more long term. She, almost with out thought, told me this would be the best option and that I would be really happy. She's not really a doctor as this is a spa type place. I don't have insurance and from what I have been finding out a dermatologist charges $150 just for the consultation! And I was afraid that their solution would be to put me on acutane (which i will not take, I dont think it's a healthy option), or that they would put me on birth control, which I have tried several for extended periods of time and it was just awful and my skin did not improve.

I see that you also mention to be very careful if I am considering laser treatments. I was actually considering laser treatments for my scarring, which is my worst problem. Now I was reading on the saline injections that could be done at home, is this good for the red type of scarring or just for the depression type scars?

Anyway, I appreciate your response. I will keep you posted on my progress if I do decide to go ahead with my scheduled treatment.

[blacksheiladog]

Thank you so much for your reply. I will definitely check out the links you listed above.

To be honest, I don't think my acne is as bad as some of the pictures i have seen posted on this site, for example. I do get a new pimple on my face every other day or two when I am not taking care of my skin. As I said before, as long as my skin is clean (which tends not to be because my pores are like magnets for dirt!!), I seem to do fine. Again, this is with professional facials and microderms done at least every 2 weeks to a month for extended periods of time, which is not an affordable option.

When I went to this free consultation, I was looking for some alternatives to these periodic treatments, something a little bit more long term. She, almost with out thought, told me this would be the best option and that I would be really happy. She's not really a doctor as this is a spa type place. I don't have insurance and from what I have been finding out a dermatologist charges $150 just for the consultation! And I was afraid that their solution would be to put me on acutane (which i will not take, I dont think it's a healthy option), or that they would put me on birth control, which I have tried several for extended periods of time and it was just awful and my skin did not improve.

I see that you also mention to be very careful if I am considering laser treatments. I was actually considering laser treatments for my scarring, which is my worst problem. Now I was reading on the saline injections that could be done at home, is this good for the red type of scarring or just for the depression type scars?

Anyway, I appreciate your response. I will keep you posted on my progress if I do decide to go ahead with my scheduled treatment.

Don't know about saline injectinons, and would be interested to know more. I think one always has to be extra EXTRA careful with any procedure that could cause more harm to your face, so really do research before hand and ask to see pictures of before and after. =Best of luck with everything!

[loz77]

Don't know about saline injectinons, and would be interested to know more. I think one always has to be extra EXTRA careful with any procedure that could cause more harm to your face, so really do research before hand and ask to see pictures of before and after. =Best of luck with everything!
[/quote]

Saline Injections
Saline injections are a safe, nearly painless and highly effective way to treat acne scars and post laser and post dermabrasion scars. They are most effective on shallow atrophic “rolling type” scars; they are less effective on deep “ice pick” type scars or “boxcar” scars, which may require surgical removal.
During the procedure, saline is injected into each scar and actually causes new collagen to form. Saline injections may be used prior to other modalities to reduce the amount of surgical trauma caused by a more aggressive procedure. There are minimal side effects, and the procedure is inexpensive.
It is also helpful for the patient with little downtime available for recovery.
Saline injections require a series of four or five treatments, two or three weeks apart. This treatment schedule allows the body to fill in the scars naturally. Saline injections positively impact acne patients without subjecting them to surgery or recovery time.

I have been reading blogs of people who do this procedure on themselves at home, and they say it is very inexpensive, and that it works.
I am still trying to find more on the subject. There is a Dr. Saire who's been performing this procedure for quite sometime. He's located in Orange County.

If anyone has experimented with this, please let me know.

[countdown2failure]

UPDATE: End of week 3:

Sorry I'm a day late on this update, been rather busy. So, yesterday was the end of week three and things are going pretty well. I am no longer getting the bad cystic-type acne that was happening in the first couple weeks of using the lamps due to the rapid killing of bacteria. I am clearing up a bit, well, starting to that is. Got some bad red marks from the onset of treatment, so I think I am going to get some AHA lotion; never tried it before but people in the forum say it helps.

So I stayed at my grandmother's house over xmas, and could really only bring one lamp with me. But it still worked great, I was keeping it about 3 inches or so from my face, and did a total of 15 minutes, moving my face every 5 minutes. Like 5 directly on the front, then turn and do 5 on the left side, then 5 on the right side. I know you're not supposed to, but I swear I can feel the light working and I like it! Anyway, for those thinking of buying one of these "eBay lamps" that we are talking about, (in my opinion) you don't have to get 2 of them, you can do fine with 1 if you don't mind shifting around. Now that I am back home I am going back to using both lamps at the same time, because I can just lay in one spot.

At this point in the treatment I am pretty well sold on the blue light. In my opinion it is at least every bit as effective as BP; considerably more effective if you keep the bulbs closer as I do, it penetrates deep into the skin instead of just sitting on the surface and hopefully soaking in a bit like BP. These are opinion statements based on my personal experience, I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea here. I'm not trying to sell anything, and I certainly can't say it will work for you, but I think it's working for me. I read some posts in other light treatment threads where people were complaining about how difficult it is to take time out of your day to sit/lay under a lamp for 15-30 minutes. Honestly, thats just BS. How hard is it to take 15 minutes, maybe even 20 or 30, and relax under a lamp? I look forward to my "lamp time", it's a nice little time to lay down and relax. I do mine after my nightly washing, prior to applying any products. The lamp does cause some minor redness/dryness, but I apply a calming lotion after treatment, before going to bed, and by morning my skin is fine. Even if I had to sit at a table or desk in front of a BeautySkin device or something similar, I don't think I would be complaining, but laying under a lamp is definitely more relaxing.

With the effectiveness of this blue light treatment, I am really wanting to try a red light now for healing and evening skin tone. From what I've read, it needs to be between 630-660nm or thereabouts. Anyone have a good/affordable suggestion? The links below were posted in another thread here on acne.org, so I am totally not taking credit for finding them, but would like some opinions, Dan? Techguy? The person whom posted the links, and those responding in agreement, said that they are essentially the same bulbs that Sci/Arts is selling for more than twice the price.

-Links-

This is a very affordable blue light bulb - $20.95 - 150watt

This is the red counterpart to the above bulb from the same site - also $20.95 - 150watt

And this is an inexpensive lamp that is supposed to house either bulb - $23.95 - Might be able to find this on ebay for even less?

Anyway, any opinions and/or information on the above items would be much appreciated. Of course proper eye protection would be absolutely necessary for safe use. I am mainly just wondering if the bulbs do indeed produce the a peak of the ideal light (405-420nm blue / 630-660nm red). They certainly seem to be powerful enough wattage, and look as though they could cover a decent-size area.

Okay, well I think it's about time for me to conclude this post. I look forward to reading any responses, and will update again (probably on time) next week. I hope everyone had a great holiday, and happy New Year!

[blacksheiladog]

Anyway, any opinions and/or information on the above items would be much appreciated. Of course proper eye protection would be absolutely necessary for safe use. I am mainly just wondering if the bulbs do indeed produce the a peak of the ideal light (405-420nm blue / 630-660nm red). They certainly seem to be powerful enough wattage, and look as though they could cover a decent-size area.

Okay, well I think it's about time for me to conclude this post. I look forward to reading any responses, and will update again (probably on time) next week. I hope everyone had a great holiday, and happy New Year!

Great to hear that you are getting results. As to the floodlights, the key is that you do need light peaking at around 415 or so, and many "blue" lights are designed to be in the 470 range, as 415 is closer to UV and may appear more purple. Don't know about the red. The key would be to get manufacture specs, if available. Or, we need a spectrum analyzer to try different lights out on, but they are hard to find and expensive. Maybe college campuses have them.

They are also kind of hot, and if they are around 150 watts, that's the same as the 27 watt fluor more or less, when comparing light output in lumens, and given that you can get much closer to the fluors.

Thanks for reporting back and lets keep hearing how you are doing. Unfortuanately, my daughter gave the two ebay lights back to me, and said she just did not think they were working and could not devote the time to be under them every day. I can't say whether she is right or not, but it's her choice for sure.

Unless she changes her mind (and she might), I may have two more lights, including fixtures on my hands.

As for red light, it is supposed to promote healing, and the fluor version of beautyskin has 3 red and 3 blue, and to get full red treatment you would need to buy 3 red extra bulbs and that gets pricey at $300 or so.

I was hoping to hear back from mikeye as to his two bulbs, but maybe he is busy and cant report back at this time.

Happy new year. -Dan

[countdown2failure]

UPDATE: Late again here, two days late this time. Oh well. It's now after the end of week 4 of using the eBay lamps. I don't know for sure, but I may have been a bit too excited about getting results. In that I mean that at the onset of using the lamps, they definitely made me break out way worse, then went on to clear up that initial flare-up quite quickly. The experience of using the lamps *in the first few weeks* was similar to Accutane, or some powerful antibiotic like Doxicycline (probably spelled wrong). But unlike the before-mentioned oral medications, thats about where the clearing has stopped, at least for now. The lamps took care of the horrible flare-up they caused, but I can't say that I have any less acne now than before I started using the lamps; maybe even more. Still waking up with fresh zits every morning, and I think that maybe the blue light is perhaps helping to get rid of them a bit faster, but not preventing them from happening.

Now it's important to clarify, I am NOT saying that these blue lights don't work, I cannot even say that from a personal standpoint yet. I am definitely going to finish out the remaining 4 weeks of treatment (and am very much hoping to see more results). Right now I am simply expressing how I am currently feeling about *my* experience using one kind of blue light product which we are referring to as "the ebay lamps" (look in earlier posts for a link).
It could be that at least for the last couple days, I may have caused more zits from starting to take three B5 (pantothenic acid) vitamins a day; but that would only account for the last 2 days.

Anyway, like I said, I still have another 4 weeks to go. It entirely likely that I have just reached sort of a plateau in the treatment, and in another week or two will start to clear up. Perhaps I could skew the results bit however, as I mentioned I started taking three B5 vitamins a day, and I ordered a bottle of that 10% AHA lotion from drugstore.com, I don't think these things will have a large impart on the results of the light test, but they could. I certainly hope they change things, because I am beginning to feel a sort of desperation that I haven't felt in years. I'm not going to ramble on about that though.

So, since this update is made on a Saturday, I will not be posting another until next Saturday. I hope that 2008 is treating everyone kindly, take care Dan and everyone!

Edit:

(As may have been noticed) For ease of tracking I am moving my blue light treatment log to a separate thread. If anyone is interested in reading the updates, that is where they will be. Thanks again Dan for the great thread!