51 replies to this topic

[Listener]

Any updates?

[NdnRomeo]

Any updates?

Yes, but I want to stay quiet till I can be 100% sure =)

[Healthoid]

Acne = leaky gut syndrome

Heal your leaky gut, you won't have anymore acne.

[DeAntonio]

Acne = leaky gut syndrome

Heal your leaky gut, you won't have anymore acne.

how exactly do you heal it?

[Healthoid]

Acne = leaky gut syndrome

Heal your leaky gut, you won't have anymore acne.

how exactly do you heal it?

Cut out foods that are poorly digested; dairy, grains and legumes. i.e. follow the paleo diet.

Get good sleep (wake up around sunrise, get 8 hrs) because sleep is vital to good digestion.

Get a good amount of sun on your skin everyday without sunscreen to produce vitamin D which is used in all of your bodily processes.

Take supplements that improve digestion; probiotics, HCL and enzymes.

Over time your gut will heal and you will no longer have acne.

[NdnRomeo]

I found something interesting

Acne is characterized by hyperkeratosis of the follicular epithelium, leading to horny impactions that may lie dormant as open or closed comedones or may cause inflammation of the follicle. Although persons with acne have consistently been observed to have elevated levels of sebum secretion, no mechanism relating sebum secretion rates to comedogenesis is known. Acne patients have also been shown to have low levels of linoleic acid in their skin surface lipids. To explain this observation, the hypothesis is advanced that the linoleate concentration in human sebum depends on the quantity of linoleic acid present in each sebaceous cell at the commencement of its differentiation and on the extent to which this initial charge is diluted by subsequent endogenous lipid synthesis in each sebaceous cell. A corollary hypothesis holds that low concentrations of linoleate in sebum impose a state of essential fatty acid deficiency on the cells of the follicular epithelium and induce the characteristic response of hyperkeratosis. Both hypotheses could hold, without there being a systemic deficiency of linoleic acid, simply as the result of elevated lipogenesis in individual sebaceous cells.

PMID: 2936775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?d...;indexed=google

Apparently there's a treament for acne using linoleic acid topically

Linoleic acid preparations for topical treatment of acne vulgaris

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5443844.html
Abstract:
A preparation for topical application of linoleic acid, for treatment of acne, and Propionibacteriem acnes, contains between about 0.1% and about 10%, preferably between about 1% and about 5% and specifically about 2% of linoleic acid. This acts both as an antibiotic and as a means for correcting the essential fatty acid imbalance in sebum which causes follicular plugging and triggers the process.

[NdnRomeo]

It is known that the sebum of people with acne has relatively little linoleic acid. This is a type of free fatty acid that the skin requires to help turnover and slough off properly. In animal models where there is not enough linoleic acid, the skin becomes scaly. You can think of the acne lesion as one large scale existing inside the follicle.e As a group, people with acne have larger sebaceous glands and produce more sebum, which may dilute linoleic acid in the follicle and in this way disrupt normal skin sloughing and help produce micro-comedo.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JJoCVT2GM...XwzT2c#PPA17,M1

Dermatologist, Doris J. Day, MD

[Ambrosius]

Over time your gut will heal and you will no longer have acne.

Yeah, but how long does it take, my friend? I'm now in week six of the paleo diet and so far no joy.

What with all these supplements we all take, I don't see how our bodies are going to be deficient in any fatty acids.

[NdnRomeo]

Over time your gut will heal and you will no longer have acne.

Yeah, but how long does it take, my friend? I'm now in week six of the paleo diet and so far no joy.

What with all these supplements we all take, I don't see how our bodies are going to be deficient in any fatty acids.

How many grams of fat do you get from diet and supplements? How many grams from diet (non-saturated/cholestorol/or transfat) and how many grams from supplements?

[alternativista]

Apparently there's a treament for acne using linoleic acid topically

I've seen people post that camellia oil improved their skin and even made blackheads 'pop out.' It didn't help with my blackheads though and clogged the pores on my forehead. It didn't have that effect anywhere else though. It was a pretty good moisturizer.

[Healthoid]

Over time your gut will heal and you will no longer have acne.

Yeah, but how long does it take, my friend? I'm now in week six of the paleo diet and so far no joy.

It really depends on how strict you are with your diet and how healthy your lifestyle is in other ways (sleep, sunlight, etc.). When you think of healing leaky gut, think of it like healing a scrape you got on your knee. Everything you do to improve your health will improve the healing. And everytime you cheat on the diet or stay up way too late or do other things, you will damage your gut again and impair the healing.

[Listener]

Acne = leaky gut syndrome

Heal your leaky gut, you won't have anymore acne.

Oh wow! You've solved it!!! That's it! It's that simple! You've solved the age old mystery of the pathogenesis of acne which has eluded scientists since it first originated!!

/sarcasm

[Healthoid]

Acne = leaky gut syndrome

Heal your leaky gut, you won't have anymore acne.

Oh wow! You've solved it!!! That's it! It's that simple! You've solved the age old mystery of the pathogenesis of acne which has eluded scientists since it first originated!!

/sarcasm

Thanks?

It's not just my idea though, for some reason we've had this sticky at the top of the forum devoted to it forever: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/THE-ACNE-...DE-t101692.html

[Ambrosius]

How many grams of fat do you get from diet and supplements? How many grams from diet (non-saturated/cholestorol/or transfat) and how many grams from supplements?

I don't know, but I eat a lot of fatty meat, such as lamb and beef. I eat tons of brazil nuts each day. I take four tablespoons of cod liver oil a day.

@Healthoid
I haven't cheated once in the last six weeks. My skin now looks worse than when I was on veganism and eating a lot of legumes and grains. I'm having a hard time understanding why if grains and legumes cause acne I'm not seeing some improvement by now, however mild.

I'm willing to try just about anything and give it a chance, but right now I'm starting to think that none of the things that help other people will help me. I feel really depressed about all of this right now. Sorry that this isn't about oleic acid guys but....

[Healthoid]

@Healthoid
I haven't cheated once in the last six weeks. My skin now looks worse than when I was on veganism and eating a lot of legumes and grains. I'm having a hard time understanding why if grains and legumes cause acne I'm not seeing some improvement by now, however mild.

I'm willing to try just about anything and give it a chance, but right now I'm starting to think that none of the things that help other people will help me. I feel really depressed about all of this right now. Sorry that this isn't about oleic acid guys but....

I'm really sorry to hear that man. I had to try tons of different things before I finally found out what was causing my acne and I got really depressed along the way at different points, but I just kept trying new things and eventually figured it out. While the paleo diet alone clears some people, there are other factors involved that could be stopping it from working.

For one thing, four tablespoons of cod liver oil sounds like way too much. I thought the regular dose was 1 teaspoon?

Sleep is a really important factor. If you aren't already, try waking up close to sunrise everyday and go to bed a few hours after sundown. Sleep in a completely dark room.

Get about 15 mins of direct sunlight on your skin without sunscreen at mid-day, but make sure never to burn.

Also if there's one supplement I could recommend to everybody it's a probiotic. Enzymes and HCL are also very useful.

Yeah sorry about derailing the thread too...people started talking about the root cause of acne and I got carried away...

[alternativista]

I don't know, but I eat a lot of fatty meat, such as lamb and beef. I eat tons of brazil nuts each day. I take four tablespoons of cod liver oil a day.

Oooh. What do you mean by 'tons' of brazil nuts? Because they are loaded with selenium which you only need a trace amount and can be toxic in high amounts. Per nutritiondata.com, there's 95 mcg in one 5 gram nut. And per wikipedia the tolerable upper intake level is 400 mcg.

Wikipedia:

Toxicity

Although selenium is an essential trace element, it is toxic if taken in excess. Exceeding the Tolerable Upper Intake Level of 400 micrograms per day can lead to selenosis.[4] Symptoms of selenosis include a garlic odour on the breath, gastrointestinal disorders, hair loss, sloughing of nails, fatigue, irritability and neurological damage. Extreme cases of selenosis can result in cirrhosis of the liver, pulmonary edema and death.[5]

Also, grains and legumes don't necessarily cause acne. I don't have an problems with them. I eat a lot of legumes. I don't eat a lot of grains, but I have bread or tortillas a couple times per week. My skin cleared completely when I cut way back on processed foods and drinks and started eating more fruits and vegetables. And supplements, of course.

[notadoctor]

How many grams of fat do you get from diet and supplements? How many grams from diet (non-saturated/cholestorol/or transfat) and how many grams from supplements?

I don't know, but I eat a lot of fatty meat, such as lamb and beef. I eat tons of brazil nuts each day. I take four tablespoons of cod liver oil a day.

@Healthoid
I haven't cheated once in the last six weeks. My skin now looks worse than when I was on veganism and eating a lot of legumes and grains. I'm having a hard time understanding why if grains and legumes cause acne I'm not seeing some improvement by now, however mild.

I'm willing to try just about anything and give it a chance, but right now I'm starting to think that none of the things that help other people will help me. I feel really depressed about all of this right now. Sorry that this isn't about oleic acid guys but....

You should eat fruits and vegetables, I don't know if you are now, but they will definitely help skin, and if you are not eating them you are probably deficient in some nutrients.

Also, it is hard to say without an allergy test, but you might be allergic to brazil nuts, or you could just be overdoing it.

For some people, B-Complex vitamins cause acne or for other it causes B6/B12 Rosacea. If you are trying to get B Vitamins I would suggest getting them from food. The only one that is some what difficult to get from food is B5. Just make sure to eat Liver or Mushrooms every day. It is still in other meats, but just not in real high amounts. You will just have to research it and see.

[Dingo Jellybean]

I'm really sorry to hear that man. I had to try tons of different things before I finally found out what was causing my acne and I got really depressed along the way at different points, but I just kept trying new things and eventually figured it out. While the paleo diet alone clears some people, there are other factors involved that could be stopping it from working.

Yeah, for me going on a low carb diet didn't really eliminate acne for me. It did help it some, but it wasn't too much that I would continue to do it.

For one thing, four tablespoons of cod liver oil sounds like way too much. I thought the regular dose was 1 teaspoon?

That's the serving recommended on the bottle. But yes, 4 tablespoons is quite a bit (12 teaspoons), and this amounts to 10g of omega 3 EPA and DHA a day...I'm not even sure many Americans consume 10g of omega 6 ARA and adrenic acid (I am not factoring linoleic acid, much as I did not account for linolenic acid). The ideal ratio is generally 1:1, but omega 3's take much longer to process from ALA than ARA does from linoleic acid.

Get about 15 mins of direct sunlight on your skin without sunscreen at mid-day, but make sure never to burn.

The biggest misconception I think people have is that vitamin D requirement can be met with just 15min a day 3x a week with arms, hands, and face exposed. This is simply not true. The more your skin is exposed to the sun, the less sensitive your skin will be to produce vitamin D. Plus you need plenty of cholesterol to produce vitamin D. While 1mg of cholesterol can provide thousands upon thousands of IUs of vitamin D, much of the cholesterol in your body is used for other things like artery repair and hormones. You need to either have your body produce cholesterol (a high saturated fat diet can help) or eat plenty of it (eggs are not that great a source, because the lecithin in the egg inhibits a good chunk from being absorbed). You also need to spend a few hours in the sun between 10-2PM with your body unclothed..and even then your body stops once you've produced 20,000 IU or somewhere near there. Any excess your body destroys to prevent toxicity. No known toxicity has resulted from sunlight. To fight off infections and diseases like depression and MS, it's best to get 3000-4000IU a day. For the average white male, this means spending about 120 minutes a day during peak UVB hours (10-2PM). But who has time to do that every day? That's why it's best to take cod-liver oil, it is by far the best source of vitamin D. Everything else contributes marginally to your vitamin D needs.

Also if there's one supplement I could recommend to everybody it's a probiotic. Enzymes and HCL are also very useful.

I recommend that too. The one thing I found however was that the cultures in yogurt are much more effective than capsules, even from capsules in which it is enteric coated with guaranteed potency (like Nature's Way). The calcium really helps to buffer the probiotics from getting destroyed. But cultures like l.acidophilus and l.reuteri do not need enteric coating anyways...they generally prefer an acidic environment anyways.

[pmezak]

Ambrosius, do you know your blood type? I think if the blood type diet theory is correct, some types do not do as well on high meat diet.....O's do, but A's do not....just a thought.
B's can eat almost all foods and be ok. I still believe it has something to do with celiac, wheat
sensitivity and efa deficiency which is all in the gut as Healthoid knows.....best wishes and this is an interesting thread.

[NdnRomeo]

How many grams of fat do you get from diet and supplements? How many grams from diet (non-saturated/cholestorol/or transfat) and how many grams from supplements?

I don't know, but I eat a lot of fatty meat, such as lamb and beef. I eat tons of brazil nuts each day. I take four tablespoons of cod liver oil a day.

@Healthoid
I haven't cheated once in the last six weeks. My skin now looks worse than when I was on veganism and eating a lot of legumes and grains. I'm having a hard time understanding why if grains and legumes cause acne I'm not seeing some improvement by now, however mild.

I'm willing to try just about anything and give it a chance, but right now I'm starting to think that none of the things that help other people will help me. I feel really depressed about all of this right now. Sorry that this isn't about oleic acid guys but....

I know what you mean, it gets so awful at times, especially when things are looking up and out of no where it doesn't work as well anymore. It makes you want to give up faith and hope. The only thing that keeps me going is the options of having to try new things, though the list is starting to get to the wire in terms of what else is left. Hang in there man, we're all fighting the same fight with you

Also yes healthoid was right, four tablespoons is a lot. 1 to 3 teaspoons is ideal. Reason being is not because of the omega 3 content, but vitamin A. Even though you can greatly exceed the rda and upper level for vitamin A with cod liver oil since toxicity appears only in the form of snynthetic, you can hit toxicity if you go too high with natural vitamin A. I can pull up that exact figure for you, but it's definitely in your range. Please do lower it. In fact do this, take 3 teaspoons of CLO a day and then the rest use regular fish oil, it will be much safer for you