25 replies to this topic

[Cubsin2100]

So I know there are probably topics about this already, but I thought I'd bring up a fresh one...

When I was at Whole Foods grabbing some soy protein powder, the guy who worked in the vitamin area told me to go for Whey instead. When I told him I like to stay away from dairy, he said soy was really bad for you. He said there were recent studies that said soy was extremely bad the for nervous system (he recommended Hemp protein instead (which was conventiently twice as expensive))...

As I take in a lot of soy protein (upwards of 100g a day or more...) I was a bit worried. Anybody know anything about this

[acne_battle]

I have never heard of that. I have soy ice cream everyday...

[Danny©]

So I know there are probably topics about this already, but I thought I'd bring up a fresh one...

When I was at Whole Foods grabbing some soy protein powder, the guy who worked in the vitamin area told me to go for Whey instead. When I told him I like to stay away from dairy, he said soy was really bad for you. He said there were recent studies that said soy was extremely bad the for nervous system (he recommended Hemp protein instead (which was conventiently twice as expensive))...

Absolutely no.
There are studies that show that an excess of soy may have mild negative effect on predisposed people (i.e. affected with alzaimer, parkinson, multiple sclerosis, hypogonodal and hypothyroid) but still it is harmless even for these people in small quantities. Studies on babies and children found no estrogenic effect whatsoever of soy foods and the effect of one or two servings of soy on mineral absorption because of phytates is irrelevant to say the least. On the other hand way more studies showed protective effect and anti-cancer anti-oxidant effects.
Just don't gorge on it but soy in small amount is harmless and possible beneficial.

(by the way: soy protein powder doesn't contain those elements of soy that are wrongly considered unhealthy)

Clin Sci (Lond) 2001; 100:613-8 -
Effect of a phytoestrogen food supplement on reproductive health in normal males.

Jama 2001; 286:807-14 -
Exposure to soy-based formula in infancy and endocrinological and reproductive outcomes in young adulthood.

Nutr Res 1993; 13:873-884 -
Endocrinological response to soy protein and fiber in mildly hypercholesterolemic men.

Am J Clin Nutr 1991; 53:745-7 -
Soybean phytate content: effect on calcium absorption.

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2001; 10:483-8 -
Soyfood Intake during Adolescence and Subsequent Risk of Breast Cancer among Chinese Women.

[jodiat]

(by the way: soy protein powder doesn't contain those elements of soy that are wrongly considered unhealthy)

Really? Never knew that. I was under the impression Soy inproperly prepared is only a negative to the body?

[Danny©]

(by the way: soy protein powder doesn't contain those elements of soy that are wrongly considered unhealthy)

Really? Never knew that. I was under the impression Soy inproperly prepared is only a negative to the body?

Protein powder (the ones I know) are made by isolating and lyophilizing soy amino acids so no carb, estrogen or phytate is left.

[pcpwns]

So did you end up getting soy? if you see no mutations forming in your body, you should be fine. (Although I suggest hemp protein too lol, theres probably something wrong with it too)

[acne_battle]

So is eating soy ice cream (besides gainging weight) bad for the mind?

[bɭesstheʄẚɭɭ]

I would go egg white or hemp, or anything other than soy, before soy...except when it's a soymilk protein odwalla drink

[Cubsin2100]

So I know there are probably topics about this already, but I thought I'd bring up a fresh one...

When I was at Whole Foods grabbing some soy protein powder, the guy who worked in the vitamin area told me to go for Whey instead. When I told him I like to stay away from dairy, he said soy was really bad for you. He said there were recent studies that said soy was extremely bad the for nervous system (he recommended Hemp protein instead (which was conventiently twice as expensive))...

Absolutely no.
There are studies that show that an excess of soy may have mild negative effect on predisposed people (i.e. affected with alzaimer, parkinson, multiple sclerosis, hypogonodal and hypothyroid) but still it is harmless even for these people in small quantities. Studies on babies and children found no estrogenic effect whatsoever of soy foods and the effect of one or two servings of soy on mineral absorption because of phytates is irrelevant to say the least. On the other hand way more studies showed protective effect and anti-cancer anti-oxidant effects.
Just don't gorge on it but soy in small amount is harmless and possible beneficial.

(by the way: soy protein powder doesn't contain those elements of soy that are wrongly considered unhealthy)

Clin Sci (Lond) 2001; 100:613-8 -
Effect of a phytoestrogen food supplement on reproductive health in normal males.

Jama 2001; 286:807-14 -
Exposure to soy-based formula in infancy and endocrinological and reproductive outcomes in young adulthood.

Nutr Res 1993; 13:873-884 -
Endocrinological response to soy protein and fiber in mildly hypercholesterolemic men.

Am J Clin Nutr 1991; 53:745-7 -
Soybean phytate content: effect on calcium absorption.

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2001; 10:483-8 -
Soyfood Intake during Adolescence and Subsequent Risk of Breast Cancer among Chinese Women.

Thanks for the excellent reply, I think I was a bit concerned because he said the new info was coming down the "pipeline"... and as I said, I take in over 100 grams of soy protein powder and other soy products a day...

But seriously, great response. I feel somewhat bad in that I really should have been able to do that research myself, but you just did it for me... nonetheless, thanks. Hopefully this helps others too.

So did you end up getting soy? if you see no mutations forming in your body, you should be fine. (Although I suggest hemp protein too lol, theres probably something wrong with it too)

Yep... I did get the soy, enough to get me by for a few weeks until I looked into it further. Since then I have only grown an extra arm and a half, so I think I should be ok...

[Ambrosius]

So did you end up getting soy? if you see no mutations forming in your body, you should be fine. (Although I suggest hemp protein too lol, theres probably something wrong with it too)

Yep... I did get the soy, enough to get me by for a few weeks until I looked into it further. Since then I have only grown an extra arm and a half, so I think I should be ok...

It's the trunk and the flippers that have got me worried.

[Cubsin2100]

So did you end up getting soy? if you see no mutations forming in your body, you should be fine. (Although I suggest hemp protein too lol, theres probably something wrong with it too)

Yep... I did get the soy, enough to get me by for a few weeks until I looked into it further. Since then I have only grown an extra arm and a half, so I think I should be ok...

It's the trunk and the flippers that have got me worried.

Fortunately I have only grown trunk and flipper (singular)... so I think Ill survive. Bright side: extra cash with new summer circus job. Down side: What's the down side of trunk and flipper? Chicks dig it

[-lxl-]

soy is good! i love soymilk

[LivesInABox]

I used to be keen on some soy products but i try to avoid them as it's being stuffed into almost everything these days. As for soy protein isolate

The process of making soy protein isolate (SPI) begins with defatted soybean meal, which is mixed with a caustic alkaline solution to remove the fiber, then washed in an acid solution to precipitate out the protein. The protein curds are then dipped into another alkaline solution and spray-dried at extremely high temperatures. SPI is then often spun into protein fibers using technology borrowed from the textile industry. These refining processes remove "off flavors," "beany" tastes, and some of the worst flatulence-producing components. They improve digestibility, but vitamin, mineral, and protein quality are sacrificed, and levels of carcinogens such as nitrosamines are increased.17-22 SPIs appear in so many products that consumers would never guess that the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) decreed in 1979 that the only safe use for SPIs was for sealers for cardboard packages.23

17. David R. Erickson, ed., Practical Handbook of Soybean Processing and Utilization (Champaign, IL: AOCS Press, 1995).
18. A. Visser, A. Thomas, "Review: Soya Protein Products-Their Processing, Functionality and Application Aspects," Food Rev Inter 3, nos. 1 & 2 (1987): 220, 1-32.
19. Zeki Berk, "Technology of Production of Edible Flours and Protein Products from Soybeans," Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations, Rome, FAO Bulletin (1992): 24.
20. See Note 16: 425-436.
21. Ibid.: 386-388.
22. E. W. Lusas, K. C. Rhee, "Soybean Protein Processing and Utilization," in Erickson. See Note 17: 138-146.
23. "Evaluation of the Health Aspects of Soy Protein Isolates as Food Ingredients," SCOGS-101, prepared for Bureau of Foods, US Food and Drug Administration, by the Life Sciences Research Office (FASEB) (1979).

Eating sealing for cardboard packages to improve your body? Sounds Ideal!

[Danny©]

I used to be keen on some soy products but i try to avoid them as it's being stuffed into almost everything these days. As for soy protein isolate

The process of making soy protein isolate (SPI) begins with defatted soybean meal, which is mixed with a caustic alkaline solution to remove the fiber, then washed in an acid solution to precipitate out the protein. The protein curds are then dipped into another alkaline solution and spray-dried at extremely high temperatures. SPI is then often spun into protein fibers using technology borrowed from the textile industry. These refining processes remove "off flavors," "beany" tastes, and some of the worst flatulence-producing components. They improve digestibility, but vitamin, mineral, and protein quality are sacrificed, and levels of carcinogens such as nitrosamines are increased.17-22 SPIs appear in so many products that consumers would never guess that the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) decreed in 1979 that the only safe use for SPIs was for sealers for cardboard packages.23

17. David R. Erickson, ed., Practical Handbook of Soybean Processing and Utilization (Champaign, IL: AOCS Press, 1995).
18. A. Visser, A. Thomas, "Review: Soya Protein Products-Their Processing, Functionality and Application Aspects," Food Rev Inter 3, nos. 1 & 2 (1987): 220, 1-32.
19. Zeki Berk, "Technology of Production of Edible Flours and Protein Products from Soybeans," Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations, Rome, FAO Bulletin (1992): 24.
20. See Note 16: 425-436.
21. Ibid.: 386-388.
22. E. W. Lusas, K. C. Rhee, "Soybean Protein Processing and Utilization," in Erickson. See Note 17: 138-146.
23. "Evaluation of the Health Aspects of Soy Protein Isolates as Food Ingredients," SCOGS-101, prepared for Bureau of Foods, US Food and Drug Administration, by the Life Sciences Research Office (FASEB) (1979).

Eating sealing for cardboard packages to improve your body? Sounds Ideal!

Well, I was talking about the substance found in a single soy bean still intact that are thought to be detrimental, not of the refination process which is of course not ideal.
But (and I will admit my ignorance about this) doesn't the explanation above applies to all forms of protein powder? I remember reading in lot of them all kind of acids, bleachers, conservatives, radiations are used ... I don't know whether some are more natural.
As a rule I stay away from process refined industrial food, so to me favorable soy foods would be milk and tofu made with nothin but beans and water.

[MineralMel]

I've heard soy isn't good for you. It's highly sprayed with pesticides. It's genetically modified, and it can play havoc on our hormones.
Here's an article warning against soy: http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm

[Cubsin2100]

Livesinabox- Thanks for the info, but, I'm a bit skeptical of a claim where most of the sources are more than 10 years old... and I'd assume Danny is right, it seems the process would be similar with all protein powders... but maybe I'm wrong?

[LivesInABox]

Livesinabox- Thanks for the info, but, I'm a bit skeptical of a claim where most of the sources are more than 10 years old... and I'd assume Danny is right, it seems the process would be similar with all protein powders... but maybe I'm wrong?

I think danny's spot on with the fact most protein powders are made with similar horrible processes - i don't think most of them have changed for many years. Some higher quality producers may try to improve the process, but the basic process is still pretty nasty. I think thats why the general advice to be healthy is to eat better quality whole protein. But of course, if your trying to bulk up it's near impossible to eat that much protein. So i'd stick to drinking it before/during/after your workout, and then try to get decent amounts of protein into your meals, not drinking it all day long.

As for the reason some guy spooked ya about soy might have been todo with the fda trying to do something about the carcinogen furan, which turns up in soy protein isolate (amongst other things) and has something todo with the heat treament process

The nonderivatized furan (i.e., furan) has
been identified previously in a small number of heat-treated foods,
including coffee, canned meat, baked bread, cooked chicken, sodium
caseinate, filberts (hazelnuts), soy

There isn't much data about furan's effect on humans, but it has been shown to cause cancer and liver toxicity in animals when exposed to high doses. At normal levels (through an average diet) it shouldn't cause problems, but if you were to absorb large amounts of it then who knows. But thats only the latest scare, pretty much every food these days has some kind of risk involved. The usual middle of the road answer is don't overdo it!

[tenten]

To me I've always thought soy is bad and I've heard so by people too, I don't drink it.

[Lana_MD]

Definitely avoid soy if you are hypothyroid (along with monitoring intake of raw Goitrogenic foods-cabbage, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, turnips, rutabagas, kohlrabi, radishes, cauliflower, African cassava, millet, and kale.) And they sneak soy into EVERYTHING now, so you really need to read labels.

[siayae]

Definitely avoid soy if you are hypothyroid (along with monitoring intake of raw Goitrogenic foods-cabbage, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, turnips, rutabagas, kohlrabi, radishes, cauliflower, African cassava, millet, and kale.) And they sneak soy into EVERYTHING now, so you really need to read labels.

I dont buy any of this on soy...The japanese and many asians including me have been eating it for years. japanese live to be the oldest too. It is the western diet that has moved into eastern countries now they are having acne problems and such, I thin cow milk is much worse, both have hormones...when a mother makes milk human or animal, it has the mothers hormones in it to make the baby grow, cows are big big animals you dont think that the hormone made to grow baby cow are for your type of body do you. goats are much smaller so it makes since to drink goat if any milk. processed any thing is bad for you, even processed soy. but I think it is a personal thing, try dairy if its hormones break you out, stop. try soy if plant estrogen break you out stop. BUT remember birth control pills clear acne due to what...? estrogen. soy is a natural phyto ESTROGEN. small amounts daily should not hurt you. tempeh , miso and other soy foods that are fermented are good for you. estrogen reduces androgen. androgen oily skin =acne. you could never get me to touch a big cow product, I would never want the hormones from a big animal, am i a baby cow? it make sense.
when I eat dairy I totally break out, bad.