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Insulin Resistance + Acne + Skinny people + Fat people + Diet + Exercise


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#1 calla lily

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 05:19 PM

QUOTE
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070510/ap_on_...thin_fat_people LONDON - If it really is what's on the inside that counts, then a lot of thin people might be in trouble. Some doctors now think that the internal fat surrounding vital organs like the heart, liver or pancreas �" invisible to the naked eye �" could be as dangerous as the more obvious external fat that bulges underneath the skin.

"Being thin doesn't automatically mean you're not fat," said Dr. Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular imaging at Imperial College, London. Since 1994, Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people with MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store fat.

According to the data, people who maintain their weight through diet rather than exercise are likely to have major deposits of internal fat, even if they are otherwise slim. "The whole concept of being fat needs to be redefined," said Bell, whose research is funded by Britain's Medical Research Council.

Without a clear warning signal �" like a rounder middle �" doctors worry that thin people may be lulled into falsely assuming that because they're not overweight, they're healthy.

"Just because someone is lean doesn't make them immune to diabetes or other risk factors for heart disease," said Dr. Louis Teichholz, chief of cardiology at Hackensack Hospital in New Jersey, who was not involved in Bell's research.

Even people with normal Body Mass Index scores �" a standard obesity measure that divides your weight by the square of your height �" can have surprising levels of fat deposits inside.

Of the women scanned by Bell and his colleagues, as many as 45 percent of those with normal BMI scores (20 to 25) actually had excessive levels of internal fat. Among men, the percentage was nearly 60 percent.

Relating the news to what Bell calls "TOFIs" �" people who are "thin outside, fat inside" �" is rarely uneventful. "The thinner people are, the bigger the surprise," he said, adding the researchers even found TOFIs among people who are professional models.

According to Bell, people who are fat on the inside are essentially on the threshold of being obese. They eat too many fatty, sugary foods �" and exercise too little to work it off �" but they are not eating enough to actually be fat. Scientists believe we naturally accumulate fat around the belly first, but at some point, the body may start storing it elsewhere.

Still, most experts believe that being of normal weight is an indicator of good health, and that BMI is a reliable measurement.

"BMI won't give you the exact indication of where fat is, but it's a useful clinical tool," said Dr. Toni Steer, a nutritionist at Britain's Medical Research Council.

Doctors are unsure about the exact dangers of internal fat, but some suspect it contributes to the risk of heart disease and diabetes. They theorize that internal fat disrupts the body's communication systems. The fat enveloping internal organs might be sending the body mistaken chemical signals to store fat inside organs like the liver or pancreas. This could ultimately lead to insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, or heart disease.

Experts have long known that fat, active people can be healthier than their skinny, inactive counterparts. "Normal-weight persons who are sedentary and unfit are at much higher risk for mortality than obese persons who are active and fit," said Dr. Steven Blair, an obesity expert at the University of South Carolina.

For example, despite their ripples of fat, super-sized Sumo wrestlers probably have a better metabolic profile than some of their slim, sedentary spectators, Bell said. That's because the wrestlers' fat is primarily stored under the skin, not streaking throughout their vital organs and muscles.

The good news is that internal fat can be easily burned off through exercise or even by improving your diet. "Even if you don't see it on your bathroom scale, caloric restriction and physical exercise have an aggressive effect on visceral fat," said Dr. Bob Ross, an obesity expert at Queen's University in Canada.

Because many factors contribute to heart disease, Teichholz says it's difficult to determine the precise danger of internal fat �" though it certainly doesn't help.

"Obesity is a risk factor, but it's lower down on the totem pole of risk factors," he said, explaining that whether or not people smoke, their family histories and blood pressure and cholesterol rates are more important determinants than both external and internal fat.

When it comes to being fit, experts say there is no short-cut. "If you just want to look thin, then maybe dieting is enough," Bell said. "But if you want to actually be healthy, then exercise has to be an important component of your lifestyle."


I did some research after that, of course. There are already plenty of postings about insulin, insulin resistance, and androgens, so I won't really get into all that, but I didn't see anything explaining why thin people are more likely to have acne than fat people...

Summary/theory:

More skinny people (most people on this site have been found to be skinny/underweight) are prone to insulin resistance, which leads to the increase of insulin and insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1), causing excess production of androgens and ultimately resulting in acne. I suppose that's why many fat people don't have acne.

I also found that the adolescent years are when people tend to more insulin resistant, so that explains why teenagers tend to break out. It's not all hormones.

Insulin resistance can be aggravated by diet and inactivity, so a fiber-rich/anti-constipation diet and exercise may help.

---
Yeah... anyway... I just thought that was an interesting observation, so I wanted to share.

Comment/agree/refute?

#2 Adam82

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 05:34 PM

I agree.

Sweetjade1980, the smartest poster here IMO, always said that adolescence is a period of temporary insulin resistance. Makes sense.

I agree about the unhealthy skinny kids. Society seems to bo so wrapped up in weight that the real issue is subverted-body composition. In high school, we always called these people "skinny fat kids". They were the inactive kids who were thin, but if you happen to run into them you would realize that most of their body is fat. They may have a small body mass, but what they do have is all crap. How much space a person takes up is definitely not a good determining factor for health.

#3 wibble

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 05:41 PM

I agree in part, some bits are what I'm experimenting with currently, mainly insulin resistance.

However, I'm not convinced its as simple as skinny people are prone to insulin resistance, I just think "some" people are (Ive been overweight myself with bad acne, and normal weight, same extreme cystic acne). Then there's an uphill struggle between sorting out the diet, and taking more extreme measures to combat genetics etc. I still thinking sorting out insulin is the key though (through low carb/gi foods and low biotin foods), and if nec supplementing on top is the way to go longer term.

#4 h20

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 06:47 PM

This is quite true, you have probably noticed that as people get older they put weight on alot easier, and weight gain isnt as difficult as it once was, Part of the reason in part is because of the issues you mentioned.

#5 Jen121

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 07:08 PM

I've had insulin resistance for some time now. I would have to eat every 2-3 hours or I would get dizzy and weak. It was pretty bad and I was concerned with it. That all has stopped, I'm not quite sure what I've done but here's what I've changed in the past couple of weeks.

started the PALEO diet (sugars only from fruit)

have been supplementing with herbs such as chronium, calcium, minerals, b-complex, and yellow dock.

Thats it! I've also noticed I've been feeling unusally calm and less oily hair and skin

#6 calla lily

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 07:08 PM

QUOTE(wibble @ May 11 2007, 04:41 PM)
I agree in part, some bits are what I'm experimenting with currently, mainly insulin resistance.

However, I'm not convinced its as simple as skinny people are prone to insulin resistance, I just think "some" people are (Ive been overweight myself with bad acne, and normal weight, same extreme cystic acne). Then there's an uphill struggle between sorting out the diet, and taking more extreme measures to combat genetics etc. I still thinking sorting out insulin is the key though (through low carb/gi foods and low biotin foods), and if nec supplementing on top is the way to go longer term.


Well, obviously insulin resistance isn't limited to just skinny people, and insulin resistance isn't the main factor for why people get acne; people get acne for a combination and variety of reasons. Insulin resistence is just part of the puzzle.

Anyway... some more interesting related information I'm come across:

QUOTE
http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dep...les/148934.htmlThe connection between insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome is not fully understood. Most patients with insulin resistance have the metabolic syndrome. However it does not necessarily follow that all persons with insulin resistance have the metabolic syndrome. Besides insulin resistance, other factors apparently are needed for the development of the risk factors of the metabolic syndrome. Among these genetic factors may predominate. In other words, genetic factors may elicit the components of the metabolic syndrome in the presence of insulin resistance: atherogenic dyslipidemia, hypertension, elevated plasma glucose, a prothrombotic state, and a proinflammatory state.

The Center for Human Nutrition has projects to understand the contribution of genetics to the metabolic syndrome. One project is the Lipodystrophy Project. Dr. Nicola Abate and Dr. Manisha Chandalia are working together on another project. It is aimed at understanding the causes of insulin resistance in populations that are unusually susceptible to this condition. One of these populations consists of urbanized South Asians. When South Asians move from the country into the cities, as increasingly occurs in India and other countries of South Asia, a great many rapidly develop insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome. The same occurs when South Asians migrate to western countries ( United Kingdom and the United States ). Premature type 2 diabetes and coronary heart disease are especially common in these migrating South Asians. Apparently they have an underlying insulin resistance; and when they become sedentary and mildly overweight, the metabolic syndrome appears.



Metabolic syndrome correlates to dyslipidemia (high levels of triglycerides, low levels of HDL cholesterol, and too many LDL cholesterol molecules). I think this relates to Autonomousone1980's rationale that acne is a way to lower bad cholesterol.

eusa_think.gif

#7 AutonomousOne1980

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 03:38 AM

QUOTE(calla lily @ May 11 2007, 06:19 PM)
QUOTE
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070510/ap_on_...thin_fat_people LONDON - If it really is what's on the inside that counts, then a lot of thin people might be in trouble. Some doctors now think that the internal fat surrounding vital organs like the heart, liver or pancreas �" invisible to the naked eye �" could be as dangerous as the more obvious external fat that bulges underneath the skin.

"Being thin doesn't automatically mean you're not fat," said Dr. Jimmy Bell, a professor of molecular imaging at Imperial College, London. Since 1994, Bell and his team have scanned nearly 800 people with MRI machines to create "fat maps" showing where people store fat.

According to the data, people who maintain their weight through diet rather than exercise are likely to have major deposits of internal fat, even if they are otherwise slim. "The whole concept of being fat needs to be redefined," said Bell, whose research is funded by Britain's Medical Research Council.

Without a clear warning signal �" like a rounder middle �" doctors worry that thin people may be lulled into falsely assuming that because they're not overweight, they're healthy.

"Just because someone is lean doesn't make them immune to diabetes or other risk factors for heart disease," said Dr. Louis Teichholz, chief of cardiology at Hackensack Hospital in New Jersey, who was not involved in Bell's research.

Even people with normal Body Mass Index scores �" a standard obesity measure that divides your weight by the square of your height �" can have surprising levels of fat deposits inside.

Of the women scanned by Bell and his colleagues, as many as 45 percent of those with normal BMI scores (20 to 25) actually had excessive levels of internal fat. Among men, the percentage was nearly 60 percent.

Relating the news to what Bell calls "TOFIs" �" people who are "thin outside, fat inside" �" is rarely uneventful. "The thinner people are, the bigger the surprise," he said, adding the researchers even found TOFIs among people who are professional models.

According to Bell, people who are fat on the inside are essentially on the threshold of being obese. They eat too many fatty, sugary foods �" and exercise too little to work it off �" but they are not eating enough to actually be fat. Scientists believe we naturally accumulate fat around the belly first, but at some point, the body may start storing it elsewhere.

Still, most experts believe that being of normal weight is an indicator of good health, and that BMI is a reliable measurement.

"BMI won't give you the exact indication of where fat is, but it's a useful clinical tool," said Dr. Toni Steer, a nutritionist at Britain's Medical Research Council.

Doctors are unsure about the exact dangers of internal fat, but some suspect it contributes to the risk of heart disease and diabetes. They theorize that internal fat disrupts the body's communication systems. The fat enveloping internal organs might be sending the body mistaken chemical signals to store fat inside organs like the liver or pancreas. This could ultimately lead to insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, or heart disease.

Experts have long known that fat, active people can be healthier than their skinny, inactive counterparts. "Normal-weight persons who are sedentary and unfit are at much higher risk for mortality than obese persons who are active and fit," said Dr. Steven Blair, an obesity expert at the University of South Carolina.

For example, despite their ripples of fat, super-sized Sumo wrestlers probably have a better metabolic profile than some of their slim, sedentary spectators, Bell said. That's because the wrestlers' fat is primarily stored under the skin, not streaking throughout their vital organs and muscles.

The good news is that internal fat can be easily burned off through exercise or even by improving your diet. "Even if you don't see it on your bathroom scale, caloric restriction and physical exercise have an aggressive effect on visceral fat," said Dr. Bob Ross, an obesity expert at Queen's University in Canada.

Because many factors contribute to heart disease, Teichholz says it's difficult to determine the precise danger of internal fat �" though it certainly doesn't help.

"Obesity is a risk factor, but it's lower down on the totem pole of risk factors," he said, explaining that whether or not people smoke, their family histories and blood pressure and cholesterol rates are more important determinants than both external and internal fat.

When it comes to being fit, experts say there is no short-cut. "If you just want to look thin, then maybe dieting is enough," Bell said. "But if you want to actually be healthy, then exercise has to be an important component of your lifestyle."


I did some research after that, of course. There are already plenty of postings about insulin, insulin resistance, and androgens, so I won't really get into all that, but I didn't see anything explaining why thin people are more likely to have acne than fat people...

Summary/theory:

More skinny people (most people on this site have been found to be skinny/underweight) are prone to insulin resistance, which leads to the increase of insulin and insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1), causing excess production of androgens and ultimately resulting in acne. I suppose that's why many fat people don't have acne.

I also found that the adolescent years are when people tend to more insulin resistant, so that explains why teenagers tend to break out. It's not all hormones.

Insulin resistance can be aggravated by diet and inactivity, so a fiber-rich/anti-constipation diet and exercise may help.

---
Yeah... anyway... I just thought that was an interesting observation, so I wanted to share.

Comment/agree/refute?



insulin is a hormone.

even fat people are insulin resistant.

#8 Listener

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 04:35 AM

I agree calla lilly. Except i do believe that fat people can be insulin resistant as not all fat people are acne-free.

#9 notadoctor

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:42 AM

This post was really interesting. I was already know quite a bit about insulin resistance, but the part about internal fat stores was very interesting.

#10 kingpin343

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:12 AM

This is the truth. Im skinny but i put that down to small bone structure. Im insulin resistant and i aint suprised after many years of drinking sugar. low -gi diet makes me have NO acne at all the only problem is being strict with this diet and my red mark scars


#11 kingpin343

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:12 AM

This is the truth. Im skinny but i put that down to small bone structure. Im insulin resistant and i aint suprised after many years of drinking sugar. low -gi diet makes me have NO acne at all the only problem is being strict with this diet and my red mark scars


#12 calla lily

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 10:37 AM

QUOTE(AutonomousOne1980 @ May 12 2007, 02:38 AM)
insulin is a hormone.

even fat people are insulin resistant.


Few fat people or many fat people?

#13 Legend

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 10:44 AM

QUOTE(calla lily @ May 12 2007, 11:37 AM)
QUOTE(AutonomousOne1980 @ May 12 2007, 02:38 AM)
insulin is a hormone.

even fat people are insulin resistant.


Few fat people or many fat people?


Many to all. You do know that many people are fat as a result of being insulin resistant, right?


QUOTE
Who has insulin resistance?
Almost all individuals with type 2 diabetes mellitus (diabetes) and many with hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and obesity are insulin resistant.


http://syndromex.stanford.edu/InsulinResistance.htm

#14 calla lily

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 10:46 AM

^Oh, darn it. No, I didn't know that.

But oh well, I did learn something new recently about how insulin resistance can contribute to acne, so that's all that matters to me. smile.gif

#15 Adam82

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:47 PM

Remember, exercise is one of the best, most effective ways to increase insulin sensitivity, especially resistance training (aka weightlifting).

SInce getting serious into weightlifting the last couple years, I've noticed that don't have crazy cravings anymore or an insatiable appetite. Carbs and sugar used to make me go nuts and start craving more. Not true anymore. I can have some junk food and be satisfied with just a little bit. I have also been able to gain and retain weight. I am about 6' 4"and weighed about 180-185 lbs. for years. Currently, I am at about 215 pounds. I have been able to put on about 30-35 of healthy weight over the course of the last few years with hard work and dediciation to a an exercise and diet program.

In summary, GET MOVING!!

#16 josh_2189

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 06:19 AM

Yeah, its true im a skinny fat kid. Ive always said that to myself and others. thanks for the post btw.

This was because in my high school years 11 and 12 last year, i tend do no exercise just the basic walk to the bus and walk home which didnt use my (heart,cardio) so i didnt burn fat but.. no matter how much i ate i never get fat never have.

in the last 2 - 4 weeks i have started surfing and running, i was so unfit i could only jog for like 5 mins now i can go for up to 30 min jogging almost running.

my acne has improved, dramattically see my gallery because of sun,surf,salt water,exercise and bp.. i say.. its funny cause i only started getting acne when i stopped skateboarding.

although i think this helps i dont think it will get rid of acne altogether BP helps (treats it slowly) and accutane will get rid of the problem and smooth out the skin, usually in most cases permanantly.

im still waiting for ro-accutane but i know its the only thing thats going to make my skin go back to complete normalness.

josh, over and out.

P.S. start exercising best thing for you, you'll be fitter, more attractive to the opposite sex (except if your chick, chicks with strong muscles arent sexy), sleep easier, be happier cause it releases stuff into your body that makes you happy, you feel better after a day with a workout, you'll see results (especially when your young), you'll feel alive again.. your skin, hair, nails will look healthier.. you'll think clearer.. you'll have more confidence.. you'll realise that you can achieve more..

#17 Cyph31

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 07:44 AM

"except if your chick, chicks with strong muscles arent sexy"

gaining lean muscle mass is one of the best things a female could do for her hell, her metabolism and energy will increase and some lean muscle mass on the arms, legs and core are VERY sexy

more women should be doing some consistent resistance training, even if light

#18 Lexica

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE(josh_2189 @ May 30 2007, 05:19 AM)
P.S. start exercising best thing for you, you'll be fitter, more attractive to the opposite sex (except if your chick, chicks with strong muscles arent sexy)

rolleyes.gif Speak for yourself - I know plenty of guys who think a strong, healthy woman is far sexier than a weak, unhealthy one.

Hell, I'm married to one. "Ooh, flex those biceps for me, baby," he says. *wolfwhistle* "Damn, woman, you are HOT!!!" sez he.

If you think a woman who looks fit and muscular isn't sexy, you've got issues to deal with.

#19 doktrin

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:59 PM

everyone should exercise, cardio and resistance training both.

what 'is' somewhat unattractive to most guys are unnaturally pumped up muscles on ladies (ala female bodybuilder). That said, most girls I know don't find male bodybuilders all that hawt either.

But all that is completely irrelevant as 90% of us couldnt become competitive bodybuilders if we wanted to. We just don't have the genetic material. Even then it takes a committed effort and a ton of work. soo... exercise is good for everyone, and noone - male or female - has a reason to abstain for any reasons of vanity. A healthy, toned, physique is good on anyone.





#20 h20

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 05:08 PM

90% of overweight people are insulin resistant.
For inactive people a very low to no carb diet is possible, but for active people who do alot of cardio, it is nearly impossible to avoid carbs because you become extremely fatigued.
I think this is more relevant to people who dont exercise as the blood sugars arent being burnt up by the body.
Btw fish oil is know supplement to help with insulin resistance.




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