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  1. Haven't noticed much of a difference. Felt like I had a big breakout last month (maybe initial breakout?) but now that I started taking spiro, ive heard you can have one from that as well. I think I was maybe too quick in starting the spiro but this oiliness just drives me insane and its a little too late to stop taking it now. Anyway heres me today without makeup 

  2. Dan's Blog

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    Just testing the blog to make sure entries are going live correctly

    Enjoy the blogs everybody!

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    Apple Cider Vinegar will be my new regimen, to see if it will fix my acne. I'm in my 20s and a male and I've had acne for about 7 years now, after my first date in high school (haha). I've tried proactiv, since high school, but it never completely got rid of acne. Regimen had the same effect, except I only used the BP bottle (Repair Step 3), from Proactive. I must be sensitive to BP, cause it makes my face red, and the redness never decreased even after months of use.

    I heard only great things from using Apple Cider Vinegar, both internally and topically, so I'll be drinking 1-2 teaspoons (in a glass of water) of ACV daily and applying ACV twice a day (half water, half ACV). I heard a lot about ACV on youtube and from many articles, with many success stories. 

    I also just use the cleanser (since I have some left), and Grape Seed Oil for a moisturizer. The ACV is said to help fade red marks so I'm hoping it will. Five drops of Grape Seed Oil or less is plenty, and it seems to make my skin very soft. Too bad it's covered in acne, but hopefully will be gone soon.

    I'll take some before pictures, and in case this works, after pictures. I'll be honest that acne has caused me to avoid social events and people and has definitely reduced my self-esteem, since it's hard to be confident when you have a skin disease on your face. 

    I'll commit to this regimen for a month, maybe more. I'll be back November 2, 2015... which is exactly a month from now. 

  3. Latest Entry
    i just took my first pill today! i'm not sure if i specified before, but i was prescribed 40 mg a day. that pill is enormous. i'm scared/excited to see what happens! obviously, i won't have results for a long time and it might even look worse before it gets better (my derm said an inital breakout is actually a rare thing... but who knows). the end result will totally be worth it, though.
  4. Well my acne returned as expected.. now I have 10 active pimples from a pre-existing 5 .. 

    To be completely honest, I kinda went off road with my diet lol .. greasy, processed, and sugary food combo (damn them cravings) .. and my time of the month is due.. so yea not bad at all. My skin texture has improved, still flaky but no longer rough and dry.

    My main reason for quitting BP for a week is because I have a laser hair removal session and my skin was in no condition to undergo those beams according to my dermatologist. So yea .. for now I shall watch my diet and sip some tea.
  5. Greetings fellow acne haters! 

    So I have completed ONE MONTH on Zenatane (accutane)!!!!  :hifive: 
    Gonna talk about two things today. 1) this past week and 2) my dermatologist visit. 

    1) This past week: My skin is still persisting in the dryness department. My forearms and legs are suffering the most and I'm still seeing the white, flaking circles/patches everywhere. I spent Monday working while on my knees a lot and when I got home that day, I noticed that there was piece of skin that was dried out and peeling that was the size of a quarter. I wish I had taken a picture of it, it was just so weird to see. Also, I should've mentioned this in my last post but I didn't realize it till that night BUT I got this weird kind of... rash on the back of my neck. I don't know if you could call it a rash but it was this little patch of skin where all of the pores and/or hair follicles were raised. They weren't irritated and were only slightly red but I just thought you should know. Only lasted about 3 to 4 days and there's a picture in my album attached to this blog.

    Touching again on the dryness, my lips are also suffering. Instead of just being consistently dry and peeling, they have become saharan dry and started to harden, crack, and bleed in some places. If I smile or laugh or talk and my mouth moves too much, areas of my lips will begin to crack and bleed. It's a real hassle while eating. Onto my hands! The top of my hands are now also forming the white circles and flaking and it's moving over to my palms. The areas between my forefinger and thumb are super itchy because of the dryness. The tips of my fingers are also starting to dry up and flake a little. Also, at my job, we have sanitized rags to use for cleaning things and my skin seems to be super sensitive to it; it doesn't burn but there's an uncomfortable tingling when my skin comes in contact with the solution. 

    Acne wise, it's all been pretty consistent for a while now: still itchy, still dry, but less cystic. 

    2) My derm appointment: All went well. Blood work was normal, side effects weren't unheard of. She was very surprised though that my initial break out had started so early. We discussed the lower back pain I was having and she said it was normal and as long as I didn't think it was preventative to my daily routine, I should just keep an eye on it and move along. Also discussed the "off" heart beat that I had had about a week ago and she said it wasn't a side effect they had seen with the pill before and that it probably would've persisted for longer but again, to just keep an eye on it if it pops up again. 

    The way my derm put it, she said that the first month is mostly a trial to make sure that your body can handle and process the medicine well before they put you on an amount that is sufficient enough to start drastic improvement. So, she is moving me on to two pills a day at 40 mg so we'll see how that goes. My major questions with the higher dosage are: 1) will I have another break out? and 2) is it going to dry me out more???

    Well... that's basically it. I hope everyone has a fabulous weekend and here's to hoping that not much changes with the new pills! Ya know... except less acne. That I'm hoping changes haha. 

  6. Latest Entry
    Hello everyone!

    So as I said before I went to the dermatologist today. And asked for spiro and without hesitation she agreed to put me on that at 50 mg a day (will up the dose if needed) with epiduo forte (it's like regular epiduo but with stronger medication) and to continue orthotricyclen.

    I'm very hopeful with everything she gave me and will stick it all out until the end.

    I'll post again after I start everything! Wish me luck
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    Hi world!

    I have been a long-time lurker of the forums and blogs on, so I finally decided I should contribute my own information.
    To start, I am a 24 year old female....and stillllllllllllllll have acne, ugh. Currently, I am experimenting with spironolactonone, doxycycline, and retin-a. I basically diagnosed myself with hormonal acne due to my age, its resilience and persistence, and the location of my acne. I have acne mainly on the medial portion of my cheeks and chin, with whiteheads and blackheads in my T-zone. If I were to rate my acne from 1-10, with 1 begin extremely light and 10 being severe acne, I would say it would be a 4. I normally have 5-6 decently inflamed pimples on my face at any given time, I will get the occasional cyst every month, and I consistently have whiteheads and blackheads in my t-zone. Oh, and tons of scarring and hyper-pigmentation.

    I have maintained my mild acne currently with:

    Purpose Face Wash (Morning and Night)
    Clearasil Benzoyl Peroxide 10% (All over face, night)
    Clean & Clear Acne Moisturizer w/0.5% salicyclic acid (Morning and Night)
    Seabreeze Astringent w/salicyclic acid (Night)
    Pantothenic Acid 250mg (Night)

    With this regimen, I have been able to keep my acne pretty mild. But, my acne never heals, it just doesn't get awful.

    My new regimen will be:
    Purpose Face Wash (Morning and Night)
    Retin-A 0.025%(Night)
    Spironolactone 25mg-50mg (Morning, I will begin with 25 and work my way up to 50)
    Doxycycline 100mg (Night)
    Oil of Olay Sensitive Moisturizer (Morning and Night)
    Jojoba Oil (PRN)
    Pantothenic Acid 250mg (Night)
    *****I have noticed the Pantothenic Acid as prevented me from getting too many cysts, but I haven't seen serious improvements with it...but it hasn't hurt anything so might as well stick to it!

    Physician's Formual CC Cream & Powder (as foundation)

    **I would also like to mention that I was able to purchase the spiro, retin-a, and doxy all on All Day Chemist. I have been using this website for about a year now for my thyroid medication and Latisse without any issue. I was dropped from my dad's health insurance about a few months ago so this is my only route to obtain these medications here in the US.

    In the past, I have tried basically every over-the-counter option, most prescription topicals, and Accutane. I must say though, with the prescription topicals, I definitely did not use them long enough to make a valid opinion about them. After using Accutane, my skin stayed 90% clear for about six months after using it. I didn't have any horrible side effects with it, besides moderate dryness of my skin and dry eyes (I also wear contacts). Both of my brothers used Accutane when I did the course as well and they saw great results and have been clear for about two years now. So I would definitely say go ahead and try it if you don't have hormonal acne. So after much research, I have decided to try spironolactone.

    Day 1:
    I started my day off washing my face as usual with Purpose, I find it to be really gentle yet able to wash off my makeup, then applying Oil of Olay moisturizer. Then I apply my Physician's Formula CC Cream, which is also super moisturizing and has an SPF. I reallyyyyy love this CC Cream, it's super inexpensive and provides about a light to medium coverage, and I have never found it irritating to my skin. I wait about an hour or two after I have my coffee to take my 25mg of spiro, I don't want to double-diuretic myself so that's why I wait
    Wash face with Purpose, wait about ten to fifteen minutes to apply Retin-A (remember just a pea size!), then wait about another ten to fifteen minutes to apply moisturizer and jojoba oil to my eye area. This is also when I take my Pantothenic acid and doxy.

    End of Week 1:
    -I have noticed I do pee a lot more, but I normally drink tons of water and pee a decent amount anyways.
    -My skin is a bit flaky (just small little flakes, not really the huge peely flakes...if that makes sense)
    -I can see that I am going to start an initial breakout just because I got a few new pimples and I have more whiteheads all around.
    -No major side effects though.

    End of Week 2:
    -I am peeing a bit less now, I have had a few dizzy spells but I just sat down, breathed through it and it was over in about a minute.          I normally have a BP of around 110/60 so I'm sure it dipped a bit low.
    -I am flaking a lot now. Mainly in my cheek, chin, nasal tip, and upper lip area. My forehead doesn't really get acne or's pretty tough no matter what I do to it. I used my clarisonic a few times a week to get rid of the huge flakes. Also, it's really hard for me not to pick at the dry skin...but I will try to be as hands off as possible. Also...the skin around my eyes is superrrr dry so I have been putting jojoba oil morning and night.
    -I am still getting more breakouts, I would say about a 50% increase in the amount of acne compared to when I started. But all of the acne has been sprouting up in the same areas before (cheeks and mouth) I have read that is a sign of a true initial breakout, rather than a product clogging your pores.

    ****The increase in acne sucks, but I have high hopes for spiro so I will stick to it!

    I also forgot to mention that I have a Mirena (hormonal IUD)...I am not too sure it affects my acne too much, it does regulate my normally heavy periods though. Thought I would put that out there just in case!

    Random "Others":
    -I eat relatively healthy everyday (I will have a splurge meal once or twice a week)
    -I exercise heavily (intense cardo+lifting) about three times a week
    -I'm a heavily stressed college student, but I feel I manage it pretty well
    -I do not have any food allergens that could be causing my acne either

    I hope somebody out there finds this helpful and I'll keep posting my journey!
  7. Okay so today makes exactly two week on treatment..

    So I haven’t been eating too healthy with the excuse that i need somewhat fatty foods for better absorption of the pill.
    And i feel like its catching up to me even if it’s only been two weeks.

    This morning i had a real bad episode of colic cramps.
    i haven’t been able to use the restroom at all. i maybe go like 2 days with no bowl movement.

    Today i sat down to try, and i guess i had so much build up gas inside ( sorry for the TMI) that i was literary paralyzed because any movement would cause the worst craps I’ve ever had. And i know this is due to the pill.

    As to my outbreaks... well they are still there, but I’ve noticed the pimples go away much, much faster. even if i pick on them, which i know i shouldn’t, but lets me honest, when they look like volcanoes of pus, you can’t help it ( i work with the public, its embarrassing)
    But I promise i have stopped...

    My lips get dry the moment my Vaseline wears off, which is the only thing that works
    at night I have been applying Aloe Vera gel. it has not been more than a week so i cannot tell if its fully working... but i do feel the texture is somewhat changing, and the redness from my previously active acne is much less.

    Talk to me guys! i love to read advise and how your experience is going!
    Much LOVE!
  8. After 3 years fighting against acne (you can see my acne story in my blog) , I finally decided to get into accutane (isotretinoin).
    I saw my dermatologist and after we checked-up that my blood test was ok, she prescrived me accutane.
    My weight is about 75 kg.

    My regimen will be, by tomorrow:
    Accutane 20 mg ONCE A DAY , for the first 10 days
    Accutane 20 mg TWICE A DAY (40 mg\ day) for the next months.

    She also gave me a moistruizer in the morning , a cleanser to wash my face twice a day and , in the nights, a gel with clindamycin and tretinoin + a zinc oxyde pasta , in order to make my red marks fade.

    As you can see, This is my skin BEFORE USING ACCUTANE.[attachment=64734:ac1.png][attachment=64735:Immagine.png]
  9. I Find Acne On Women SEXY And BEAUTIFUL. 

    To me, acne makes a woman look sexier and more beautiful. 

    Acne, Acne Scars, Oily Skin, are sexy. 
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    Hi there, 
    Im new to this and have researched my problem everywhere but can't find anywhere someone with the same problem, even the doctors aren't really sure whats going on.
    I have been on Dianette for my hormonal acne now for about 2 years from the age of 14 and at first it worked wonders as i had severe acne, you could barely see skin without spots on, i still had spots but nothing compared to what i did have. Ever since my skin has been relatively clear but with the occasional spots. However in the past 5 months on around the 9th day of taking dinette, my skin has broken out in groups all around my face, causing me to not want to go out or do anything. I have found my skin to automatically clear up on the first day of the 7 day pill free week, thats when my skin is the best.
    I am completely fed up of spots and just want them gone.
    I've literally tried everything: sudocrem, tea tree oil, green tea, lemon water, no dairy, vitamins and minerals, creams and tablets from the doctors but nothing is working.
    I'm scared to come off dinette because I've heard horror stories but unsure what to do.
    please help!!!
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    The reviews seem totally fake and the product itself is horrible it does nothing to clear pimples if anything it makes them worse! The customer and by customer service Steve Wills is mean as hell he turns into the devil when you want to return a product. I would not recommend it and if you are allergic to nuts or evil people don't buy this product because it comes with both. The soap doesn't clean at all no wonder it is free, it is probably animal fat or something. Not a good product or company, please avoid...I wish I would have. Also it's funny how they don't have a contact number or address listed, this is a shady corporation that only defends themselves or rather himself because he has something to hide. BEWARE OF CARLEY'S AND THE OWNER STEVE WILLS!

    The reviews seem very odd as another poster mentioned they all look similar and some are nearly the exactly same, also for such great results their are no pictures, no videos except three pathetic ones on youtube that are 5 years old and they most likely were given free products, if you have never purchased from carley's let me tell you the offer free products for positive reviews, but not only that their site has a near perfect rating even though on many other sites there are over 100 negative ratings, ebay, doesn't have any description reviews except for fast shipping, good customer service (which is true) Steve wills is only nice when you give him money, if you have any complaint he is a word I cannot say on here. Go to, I didn't know they had a report on them, but I was searching for negative reveiws as I figured this company had to have some, The person who wrote it had similar experiences and inquiries as other people did on other message boards and sites, and the guy who owned the company sent a rebuttal that no professional ever should send to a customer, even inculded there username or something anyways STEVE WILLS insulted them personally, which I though was crazy, and he did it because they said what many people are wondering which is the reviews on CARLEY's seem very fake, and like they put it manufactured, I wouldn be surprised if he was writing them because he seemed pretty angry and defensive, I can only imagine what the guy says in a personal email that other people can't see, below are some reviews wondering the same thing about this shady guy and comapny. I will also provide the link to the ripoffreport later.
  10. Well folks after going weeks without any pimple i got one two days ago, it was a painful little whitehead, i popped and it went away in a day. Not bad considering it's been weeks since i got any blemish.

    My current regimen is the same as described in the last post. Also, it's cool that i went the entire Summer with clear skin! Also now that fall is here ive noticed my skin isn't as oily as it was during the summer, which was definitely way less than pre-accutane.

    nothing else, everything is cool.

    I'm gonna disappear for a while unless something major happens to my skin like all of a sudden accutane helps mother nature to kick in and i finally stop getting any blemish or acne returns! Who knows. Also in the next entry i promise to put a picture of myself in this famous blog
  11. I was heading to my dermatologist appt. on Thursday when this car on the lane to the right of me, just a couple cars ahead, merged into my lane, going at a really slow speed in order to decide whether he should pass the gore zone to get back on the freeway. With me going 65 mph and my breaks not being as great as they could be, I wasn't able to stop in time and slammed into the corner of his bumper. We're both doing okay thankfully, but it looks like our insurance isn't going to help pay for my repairs. And I already owe my dad $400 as it is so this all really sucks..
    While waiting for the tow truck to pick me up I called my derms office since they have a $50 cancellation fee, and I wasn't about to have to deal with that.

    My skin's looking really good, and I was so looking forward to seeing what my derm was going to say and suggest next.
  12. This feels weird.
    I had to spend a week deciding whether I had the courage to start this but it's flew in.
    Week 1 through 4 was hell. My face was a riot, and that's an understatement. Both my cheeks erupted like a million volcanoes which weren't even that big. But there were so many of them, nearly every pore was clogged. Had another breakout on week 6. Then one pimple a week until week 9. I have been clear since then.
    My skin texture is still dry, a bit red and had small episodes of flaking but I think that's more from using BP as spot treatment.

    Now I am unsure how to continue. I am definitely continuing a topical. I could carry on Differin or I could start using the Treclin (Ziana for you USA folks) I was prescribed last time I was at the derm. Which is, tretinoin and clindamycin. Differin is working for me for sure BUT I am thinking could the Treclin improve my skin texture(dryness) issues? Will really need to think this through! If any of you have transistioned from differin to tretinoin after 12+ weeks for reasons other than acne PLEASE let me know - good or bad!
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    Latest Entry
    So I am writing this blog to keep a log of my acne. Basically I have had acne all my life, been on accutane 3 times, atleast 5 different antibiotics and within 3 months my acne will always return. Right now I have just returned to university and my acne is at its worst and i mean its WORST.
    I am absolutely covered in redness, whiteheads, cystic acne around my jaw/chin, my nose is covered in huge pores and blackheads. I have 0 self esteem and I can't even let my boyfriend visit me as I am that embarrassed and I dont even want to leave the house.
    I am on Day 2 of Yasmin and Day 5 of taking lymecycline alongside, however I know lymecycline does not work for my acne completely as I have taken it before I know that it does help to reduce the bigger white heads,I am hoping the combination of the two will work then I can continue on Yasmin alone.
    So day 2, I am at my worst, I have had 3 new cystic acne spots since taking yasmin and 3 large white heads on my cheeks, I realise this is going to take a while to see a improvement.
    I am going to be posting updates every few days so hopefully I see a improvement soon as right now I just want to cry. 
  13. This week has been pretty good so far! I've had a few small pores purge--there's honestly not many left on my entire face that are clogged, which is amazing!

    I have one clogged pore on my right cheek that I'm hoping will purge and go away/ heal by tomorrow. Overall, I have a couple of small pink and red healing marks. My chin, cheeks, and face overall is SO much more clear than it ever has been. 

    Praying that I can stay patient with this regimen and resist touching/ messing with my face! I'm only a couple of weeks away from the 7 months completed mark.


    This has been such a long journey, but it is finally starting to pay off :)
  14. Latest Entry
    Lips still very dry. A few times a day I actually go in the bathroom and have to rub my lips with water to get the old/ drying aquaphor and skin off and apply new aquaphor. (it doesn't look that bad tho, I've been keeping up with it. Its bareable.) I bring a pocket mirror with me everywhere, i don't care what people think about that - not about to walk around with nasty ash lips lol

    I still have good thoughts about this drug, i think I'm getting clearer little by little each day. Still see some under-the skin pimples around my chin, don't know when those will finally surface.

    My fingertip sort of peeled off the other day - don't know if its unrelated, no other fingers had this. It's healing now.

    I mentioned to a friend i was on a drug for my skin and she said oh i think it working so that made me happy (:  maybe other people are noticing too? and just not saying anything bc well thats weird. Its nice to tell people what you're going thru or explain why you're putting aquaphor on every hour tho, and that you're not crazy. just tryna get clear, na mean???

    GTG bye!
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    Noticed tiny bumps forming on chin and forehead area. 
    Hopefully not new pimples forming...
    Tiny red pimple formed on left jawline.
    Skin felt a little red this afternoon, maybe because I was out in the sun today.
    Decided to put on duac instead, mainly focusing on those areas and on the new formed pimple.
    Hopefully duac will dry them before they form.
    Will try tretinoin again tomorrow night.
  15. Im currently a few days in to month 4 of Accutane and I have just got back from my check up with my dermatologist. 

    She asked me if my acne had improved and I said I couldn't see a difference myself except for the PIH calming down which she was surprised about but when she had a look she said it had definitely improved which was awesome to hear. She has kept my dosage the same and provided me with a cream to put on any active lesions which will help them die down.

    She is also getting me in for surgery next month to have any of the stubborn blackheads / comedones burnt off :/  as they don't seem to be shifting. Im also able to have the few comedones on my face done as well if I wish which is great to hear.

    So its all looking good at the minute :) 
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         Hey guys! Okay, so I want to start blogging my skin journey. I'm currently a senior in high school and it wasn't until this year when  my skin decided to flare up. I have some pretty bad acne on my forehead, chin, and the right side of my cheek. When my skin first decided to break out I tried to not let it bother me and I would walk out the door and go to school no problem. I attend an all girls school so I don't really have energy to put on cover up in the mornings (plus its not the best for my angry skin). About 4 weeks ago, people started commenting on my skin and asking why I was flaring up so bad. This was especially uncomfortable for me. I would casually laugh it off and tell them it was because of stress or something, but deep down I felt extremely self conscious about it. I don't want my acne to be the first thing people notice when they speak to me, so I decided to take action!

         About last week I started doing unhealthy amounts of research on how I could clear my skin. I read forums upon forums and watched about 30 videos on people's journey with their skin. I have always known about but it wasn't until I started watching videos, did I discover the regimen. I ordered it last week and so my journey begins.

       Tonight was the first day I started using it and so far so good. I applied the three steps about 20 minutes ago. The face wash was actually very foamy and rich. Having said that, it did dry my face out quite a bit and it felt quite tight after I was done (even after only doing it for 10 seconds). The benzoyl peroxide wasn't bad, I only used a small pea sized amount because the directions said to ease into it. I found that the moisturizer took quite a bit of time to absorb into my skin. I used 2 pumps of it with 5 drops of the jojoba oil and it took about a full 2 minutes to see it sink in.

      This is just the beginning and I cant wait to see what this product does for me. I have high hopes and I am planning on being patient. Sorry that this is so poorly written. Thanks for all who actually read this and i'll update tomorrow! 

    p.s. I'll try and post some pictures eventually of my before photos.
  16. Latest Entry
    I haven't posted in over a year. I feel guilty about it. I logged in to this website every day when I was suffering really badly with my acne and the second it cleared up I abandoned it completely. I'm not sure if anybody read my blog posts (there were only 8), but if you did, here's a potted version of what happened to my skin this past year:

    At the beginning of January I visited a dermatologist, who prescribed me with Yasmin and minocycline. Within 8 weeks my skin was almost perfect. I had a few purple/red marks but they faded after a few months without me having to seek any treatment for them. Considering what a mess my face was in I consider myself very lucky! 

    After a while, I started getting constant yeast infections from the minocycline, so my derm switched me to Efracea, which contains doxycycline and is often used to reduce pimples and red bumps that are associated with rosacea. The yeast infections stopped almost immediately. 

    And there it was. I had almost entirely clear skin! I would experience the occasional pimple, or the odd spot under my skin on my cheeks, but by and large, the improvement in my skin was astonishing and I was incredibly happy with it. I feel lucky that I managed to enjoy a year of blemish-free skin. 

    The downside to this was that I was on birth control, which I hate. I hate being on birth control. I suffer from depression and I find it affects my mood substantially. It makes me feel lethargic, and bloated. My breasts grew a cup size (something I'm sure some women would be perfectly happy with but they're heavy and uncomfortable to me). My sex drive has almost entirely disappeared.  
    Although my dermatologist told me that a daily antibiotic wouldn't have an affect on my immune system, I've never been as sick as I have been this year. I've suffered from about 4 or 5 individual bacterial and viral infections, all of which required a course of antibiotics on top of the one I was already taking every day. I was bed ridden for weeks at a time. 

    A month ago my derm told me to come off the antibiotic (he thinks my acne is hormonal and that it probably wasn't doing anything for me anymore), stay on Yasmin and not to make a follow up appointment with him. A week ago every pore on my forehead clogged and erupted in a raised red pimple. It's the only symptom I have so far and I don't know if it's because I came off my antibiotic or if Yasmin has stopped working for me. 

    Either way, I've a hair appointment booked so I can get my comfort blanket fringe cut back in to hide the forehead acne, and I'll be monitoring the rest of my skin very closely. 

    I sincerely hope one day I won't be reliant on any medication (I hate it so much) but until then I think my vanity/mental wellbeing are going to win out.
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    Hi, I'm having mixed feeling about the ginko biloba supplement. I felt like it helped me the first couple days and suddenly I get multiple cysts. Has anyone tried this with a similar or different experience? Thanks