It's been more than a week since i have last pierced myself. I must honestly say that the area i pierce smack in the middle of my forhead had smoothened out much more. Before there use to be a noticeable pit when you look from the side but now its much more even. The pit is muchj more shallow and its hard to see the indentation. It took several days for a "scab" to form. I don't use any facial srubs but i do clean my face in the shower gently with a natural skin cleanser. The scar still hasn't healed up yet. The scab feels like rough dead skin. I think will get better results the next time i do it. I just have to wait for 3 more weeks. I hope Maya has something positive to say too...

I used a normal pin type needle. I don't know the exact diameter but its just about as thick as a pin. However, the next time i do it i plan on using much thinner needles. I believe i will get better results because with a thinner needles, hopefully ones that match the size of my pores, will create more holes over the scarred region. I think it will be especially helpful because it will allow any topical treatment that i will apply after to be able to go deeper, quicker. The larger the needle, the harder it is to pick different areas to pierce because once you pierce your skin it swells and you don't know where you pierced before. Maybe i will do a combo piercing of an X amount of needles. I'm sure it would be better if someone else could do this but i don't tell anyone that i do this to my cuz it would freak them out, even my family members. My guese is that if i keep the same amount of results from each time i do this then by the 3rd or 4th time, my scar should be gone or very unoticable. Hell, i prefer this rather than laser surgery or dermabrasion which have a much longer waiting period. I mean it only took a week for the redness to go away. The only difference i guese with laser surgery or microdermabrasion with subscision needling is that instead of making a wound that extands from the bottom all the way to the top, you're just making a wound in the bottom, where the scar is. Which is the only area that is causing the problem anyways..... Just an idea that poped in my head.. I was just wondering if the needle is bent at the pointy end then maybe it would help scarp more of the scar tissue away. Since you need to twist the needle under the skin anyways. It shouldn't be anymore painful, if at all.

Eyeciss - thank you for those links - I found them very useful.

I guess subcision is pretty much the same as Needling then... what I did note was that the needles are meant to be inserted around 1cm away from the scars - I wonder how many times they are inserted??

I think next time, I may try the above method.

Yes, a finer needle would definately be better. Someone on the Saline inhjections thread said you can buy injection needles that are very fine - I will see if i can find the information.

Only a few of mine have formed scabs - they are the ones which have better results. I think the scabbing may be an important aspect of healing.

I found it hard not to try and pick the scabs off myself (before they were fully formed) I think that's why some have had no change, while the scabbed ones look better.

Eyeciss - maybe you could just try 1 scar adn see if it works well for you.

Where can you purchase intejection needles/syringes online? I've heard that you can do it on and away. Its confusing but i guese the main goal is to get at the scar tissue.

MC - I remember something on the saline injections thread about people buying needles online - I haven't got time to look through it now - but the info is on the following thread - I will try and look soon.

If you see it before I get a chance, please post. Thanks


http://pub106.ezboard.com/fabsoluteacneinf...icID=3902.topic

The discoloration that makes it look bigger will go away after a week. Just keep applying whatever vitamin serums you have at least twice a day. If you applied a wash cloth soaked in hot water then put it over your scar after you pierced it then the skin should of levels a bit.

I ordered these syringes: http://www.diabeticexpress.com/cgi-bin/dex....cgi/07-17.html

they're the smallest and thinnest

Good luck Eyeciss... I didn't get that much improvement with mine from the last time. But it was the first time and it was more like a trial and error procedure. The next time around i'll will be more prepared. I'll have the needles and i plan to scrap the scar fibers from the upper skin tissue. Thats in three weeks. In the mean time, i scheduled an appointment with my dermatologist which will be prior to when i plan on doing it again. I'm going to ask her what I can do, such as laser etc.

To Maya, MC, etc.,

I'm thinking of trying this on only one of my scars first just to see how it would work. It seems better to go slow in case I don't react to it well.

Have any of you gotten specific instructions from one of the doctors who performs this (Dr. Fernandes in South Africa or Dr. Camirand in Canada)? If I try this I think I'd want to have some clear instructions to follow before I try and then I'd be willing to report how I did. I just could use some guidance. Wouldn't it be something if with all the extravagant and expensive lasers and peels that the answer could be in a pin?

Thanks and keep the faith,
Henry

P.S. I'm not convinced this is the same thing as subcision because everyone says this leaves a scab rather than a bruise (which is left by subcision). Also, subcision seems to be more about cutting tethered bands and the visual on the web article by Dr. Fernandes shows this to less about cutting and more about puncturing.

To be honest, i am also quite confused with subcision and needling. The last few posts had 2 sites that seemed to point out that subsicion and needling are the same procedure but Des Fernendes' site refers it solely as skin needling. I gotta figure this out before i do it next time because im not sure if i should be needling directly onto the scar or insert the needle indirectly into the scar and scrap the scar fibers. Des Fernendes' technique seems to imply that the needle is inserted through and under the scar stimulating the tissue beneath it to repair itself. Maya, since you've been in contact with Des Fernendes, do you think you can find out please?

MC great news about the syringe needles - will get some myself

Subsicion and Needling ares not exactly the same. As I see it, subsicion can involve cutting away at the old underlying scar, just using one needle per scar and twisting around under the scar (the needle has razer edges (unlike a normal needle)

Needling itself uses more pinpricks - but ultimately, the goal is the same - that is to stimulate collagen and push the indents up to the surface.

It's been about 4 days since my experiment - and all the puffiness around the scar has just about gone and some of the scars are improved - not so pronounced - but I do feel that it will take several sessions for a really big difference.

Even in the needling links, it does say that it normally takes 3 sessions to create big results (and they are using professional machines) so it may take us 5-7 (at a guess)

Altogether, I am pleased with what has been achieved so far.

Oh yes - something to note - IF you have some scars that are still slightly active (that is, the old zit/cyst isn't completey dead) - don't work on those. What I have found is that the needling works best on old scars.

Eyesiss - keep us updated - don't worry, it will be fine, we are all a few days ahead fo you, so keep reading these posts as to see what to expect!

Maya

Yea, i definetly need to do this again. My scar have slightly improved but not that much.

I think we have to be quite persistent with needling.

Since i didn't do all my scars - I am going to have a go at some of the other ones in a week or so - just had to check my diary to see what I had on, as I think the first 3-4 days, the needling puffiness was a bit obvious in daylight!

I posted last night to see if anyone had gotten instructions or other guidance from any of the needle dermabrasion doctors, as I'd like to give this a shot. Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks and keep the faith,
Henry

Nothing new here, just waiting for the next time to do this. I was just wondering how far i should go when i pierce my scars. Now that i'm getting thin syringes i think piercing will be easier. I remember reading on Des Fernandes' site that deeper the better??

Henry - please read this WHOLE thread - everything we know is on here.

I doubt any needling doc is going to give the whole run down on the procedure - if you are apprehensive, I suggest you don't do this. But maybe you can try on just 1 scar.

Thats great news Eyeciss, has the coagulation gone aaway?

Yes - it seems to be hard to tell why some scars worked better with this method. Some are definately better - smoother too and some, not much change

:lol: Sorry for not updating sooner. I was surprised to see the link has grown so much. Boy have you all been busy. I am glad that those of you who have tried this at home have gotten some results. I must say you are brave! The difference in using a tattoo machine is that the needle (which is actually 5 needles) pierces the skin about 300 to 600 times a minute. The tattoo machine also controls the depth at which the needles penetrate the skin, giving the tattooist complete control. The needling technique using a tattoo machine also injects water into the skin to help break up scar tissue and generate new collagan growth.

The premise is the same in using a regular needle (pin) but in my opinion they are not one in the same. By piercing the skin a few times with a needle you are taking some serious risks. You could easily pierce the skin to deeply, cause an infection or end up with a deeper more pronounced scar. Please be careful.

As for my scars, the skin has completely healed and the results are lasting. I am now back to my regular skin care routine (cleanser & TNS) and I have been wearing makeup. I plan on having the procedure done again in a few weeks since my worst scar (improved 50%) still needs some help. Otherwise I am very happy with the resluts I got 100% on one smaller ice pick scar, 75% on a slighly larger ice pick and 50% on the deepest largest ice pick.

Joginn - thanks for the update! The results sound great!

I didn't realise that the tatoo gun sprayed water into the skin - so now it seems to me that tatoo needling is a combination of using the needle with saline type injections.