Medical doctors are not looking to cure these problems but they want to give use in the long run harmful drugs that they can make big money on. As I have said before God has put everything we need in the earth and not in a science lab.

Sweetjade, I've been silently reading your posts with great interest for at least 2 years and I appreciate your knowledge.

But what's shocking me, is, that you still advice against animal food and especiallly animal fats, when there's no evidence, that this foods do us any harm.

It's strange, that someone, who is so well informed like you, does not know, that humans evolved on animal foods and fats. Humans are perfectly adapted to saturated animals fats, because they ate it for millions of years! It's very unlikely, that something, that was a substantial part of the human diet for millions of years, could cause acne.

If saturated animal fats were really inflammatory, like you say, than all people, who follow a low carb high animal fat diet (according to robert atkins, wolfgang lutz, jan kwasniewski, ray audette, weston price foundation and many others) would get inflammatory diseases after a short time. But this is not happening. There are many people who have eaten a diet loaded with saturated animal fats for half their life without any problems. In fact, most people on this diets report, that they have become healthier!

It's also very unlikely that animal fats makes your acne worse. Sweetjade, I'm wondering how you explain the fact, that so many people on low carb high (saturated) fat diets report better skin. There are literally hundreds of testimonials on various low carb boards, that show clearly that this way of eating is improving skin diseases (not only acne, but also psoriasis amongst a lot of other diseases). I just can't understand, why you ignore this testimonials completely. Maybe there are some studies, that show, that saturated animal fats cause inflammation theoretically. But in practice, these fats don't behave like this. I put definitely more trust in practice, than in some very speculative theories (like you do sometimes).

For those, who still don't believe, that a low carb high animal fat diet (like our ancestors ate) could decrease or even cure acne, should read the following posts. I know, I posted them before, but since they were totally ignored and most people on this board still think vegetarianism would be the holy grail, I have to post them again.

By the way, it's also not true, that animal fats cause more sebum. Just look at following post from a low carb forum:




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There are animals that are here specifically to be food for humans because they are truly noble and support the overall goal of the planet, which is to support evolution. The planet wouldn't be able to support more than 5 million people if we were all vegetarians and we have nearly double that number here now. The animals know this and choose to incarnate here anyway to support this huge experiment called Earth.

Humans can only evolve when they are incarnated on the earth plane, and until they evolve to the point where eating is no longer necessary, they must rely on animals to survive. So the issue then becomes the need to treat our noble food animals with honor and respect, and to give them as kind a death as possible. This is why I promote only partaking of grass-fed, pasture-grazed, free ranging and wild meat sources. I would never ever eat a companion animal, but I will eat food animals like cows.

Every form in existence has consciousness and intelligence. Animals aren't better than carrots just because they have voices and eyes, and you don't ever see anyone protesting the fact that we eat carrots, right? Those kind of hierarchies are illusion, just as illogical as people saying Blacks aren't human because their skin color is different.

Oh good heavens to the BOTH of you! I have nothing against the consumption of animals nor animal fat. =) I am just reporting the research. Not to mention, I specifically named these fats because some people found that eating organic meats was healthier for them than eating "regular" or non-organic meats and this could possibly be due to the added hormones that are trapped within the fat, among other things. Therefore some people go organic, others eliminate animal protein all together. That's their decision and I'm not at all here to make it for them.

Heck, personally I don't pay any attention to the amount of animal saturated fat that I eat, BUT incidentally it does usually happen to be more leaner cuts of meat AND because I dropped the TV dinners, canned food etc, I don't eat as much meat as I used to. Therefore, I can't simply ignore the possibility that a reduction in saturated fats, usually animal, played a small role for me.

Furthermore knowing that not everything that I do, will work for someone else and vice versa, I can not exclude the possiblity that eliminating (animal) saturated fats, fried fats, and trans fats will do wonders for someone else...as it already has. After all, there is more than one way to control production of hormones and inflammatory products and judging by how varied our individual "anti-acne" diets our, while each one doesn't exclude ALL foods/ingredients/chemicals that research has found to support these processes (it's impossible), apparently they exclude enough to make them effective for us on an individual basis.

Thanks for sticking up for the...right to eat animals. Take care

P.S. Yup, I still love my bacon and I still eat it (but I naturally don't eat it as often)

Really. Do they have acne, hirsutism, or other signs of it? Do they follow a diet that would help curb it? As for your tests, do you think that you are normal because of the way you eat now or are borderline (low-normal)?

i think we are all individuals and it amazes me that arguments over who thinks this is right and this is wrong is still going on,when this whole board shows that different things work for different people,and regardless of acne,i dont eat meat anyway.
and i never ever will even if i did believe it would make a difference to my skin.

sweetjade,as i happen to agree with most of your comments,im curious,can you give a typical example of your days diet to me.

Sweet Jade, if you ever wrote a book.. (which you should, indeed) I would be first in line to buy it!!
Anyways, you spoke about getting diagnosed for food allergies, how exactly does one go about doing that? And are the foods you are allergic to guaranteed to be the ones that cause your acne?
(Sorry, stupid question probably)
Also I was wondering, you know so much about the internal causes of acne related to diet/hormones, etc. but do you personally use a topical regimen at all or believe in them?

I'm not sweetjade, but you can get a blood allergy test at your local hospital.

sweetjade,u must a scientist because you obviously know a lot about what causes acne.as much stuff as you know,why don't you design a acne treatment based on your knowledge.you know the most about what causes acne than any doctor i ever talked to.i truly believe in your theory ,it all makes sense.how some people with very oily skin has no acne and a person with dry skin has plenty acne ,it absolutly has more to do with it than just sebum production.good luck on your research

EDIT: Nevermind lol.

SweetJade1980: What do you suggest bodybuilders and those do that actually WANT to have increased levels of androgens (testosterone) in their body?

I'm confused. Are you asking how a bodybuilder that is acne prone and wants to increase their androgen levels, in order to increase their gains can do so, but still avoid the development of acne?

Exactly!

I'm glad that this topic is up, because diet is probably the only connection I can think of between the generally acne-free (this includes light to mild acne too) 3rd world to the acne-on-everyone's-faces developed world.

No skin care products, lack of hygiene, yet virtually no signs of acne? Unbelievable.

I put a dairy-free approach topic and some people say I should see a change within a few days to a few weeks, not a couple of months. I don't buy that. Although I've seen a drastic improvement in 2 months, oily skin still exists. It's like a broken bone...does that even take weeks to fully recover? No, it can take months. Acne isn't a problem that can be fixed overnight or even a few weeks. The most potent acne-fighting medication is Accutane, and that takes half a year to fight...yet it keeps coming back...but costs thousands. I've seen people take Accutane 6 times...good lord that costs more than a car I'm about to buy (Honda Civic 2006 LX).

Of course diet isn't the reason for everyone. But I do believe that for most people, they should look no further than their 3rd world neighbors. I don't eat a lot of sweets (if any) AND I stay away from dairy. Although some of it is genetics, genetics can only do so much (or so little). Some people think they can avoid dairy, yet often fail to check the labels of other foods. A lot of rice dishes, pasta dishes, wheat bread, cookies, cereal, etc. have milk products in them...often in amounts that are significant (5-10% by weight). Some people have a high threshold when it comes to acne and can consume quite a bit before a pimple appears and some have a low threshold.

But I will say this though...the amount of dairy products that are consumed compared to the prescence of acne looks to be a positive correlation from what I've seen...not only in my family, but many others.

First of all I would like to thank you for the always well thought out and useful posts. I always strugle to find the right way to put everyting I find into a post, mainly because I am impatient and can't bother to add 50 links in one comprehensive post like you do.

Now I am going to give my experiences as a critic of many of the food-acne studies and myths and more importantly, as a world traveller. Someone who has acutally been to many 3rd world countries and can make more accurate assumptions than someone who watched a world vision ad and remarks how clear their skin is. Then I'm going to be the devils advocate and ask you one question that I believe is the only cure for acne other than what I went throughwhich is growing out of it or normalizing(Cure meaning self sustaining and permanent but may or may not have to do with food or general health).

Like I said, I have travelled to many, many countries(I am young but have passport books(yes plural), filled with country stamps(Even though many don't do that anymore I stil ask for it). More importantly to this discussion, I have been to all the countries and areas where the population lives the longest (Save for Iceland, but I am going in a few months) and literally dozens of impoverished nations. For the 3rd world countries, let me say that they do have acne. Of course it isn't as prevalent but it is there. However in the place of all the acne they have malaria, thyphiod, worms and other parasites, starvation. When they do eat it is mainly high Gi/Gl foods such as flatbreads and rice. They also eat poor quality foods and yes they aren't filled with pesticides(The ones that aren't aid shipments at least), but they are gorwn in horribly contaminated soil and water from all the disease and pollution. I would also add that the living conditions in the huge 3rd world cities add in so many bloody toxins to thier bodies from every aspect(Air, water, soil, basically everything), that it is amazing that they survive as long as they do. There is so much pollution in Lagos, Bangkok, Mumbai and the like that the insides of my nose usually turned black with all the shit in the air within a day. To go back to the food issue, in these cities they do eat less than we do but eating the local fare is just as high in refined sugars, bad fats, tons of coffee, sugary drinks etc... as a homemade meal over here. It's just different ingredients. With all these bombardments on the system it is amazing that acne isn't more prevalent. If genetics play the biggest role here than kudos to their amazing adaptaion to a harsher assault on the body than that guy who did supersize me.

I realize that many will say well, all these toxins or what not are just maifested in a different way in them such as disease instead of acne, but I don't know. Even in the more affluent areas where disease is not really existant they still eat the same thigns, maybe even more fast food and alcohol, are exposed to better water but just as bad air, foods grown in bad soil quality, etc... and they have acne in the same degree as the people who are extremely poor. What is more is that the backpackers who have been to these places for months and months have clear skin. I have heard women and men remark how ironic it is that they are eating just as bad if not more sketchy foods, are exposed to more alcohol, etc... than back home, yet they look great. This is accross the board and this is coming from people who are prone to acne. I don't get it. Could it be the massave amounts of sun they get(Vit D)? Is it the constant exercise they revieve(Not unusual to walk 4 miles a day to work)? Is it the generally happier attitude they all have despite being in horrible conditions? Their family values? It's as if they have accepted to do the best with what they have, whereas we are always unhappy with where we are, always wanting somethign bigger and better.

Now on the other side of the argument I go to the place of my ancestors and the places where people live the longest(Well they don't come from Japan), Europe. What I see here is a diet high in potaotes in Ireland, high in white rice in Japan, high in saturated fats in France and most of Europe, high in breads of all kinds everywhere as well as dairy products(I realize these people can digest lactose). Oh ya, the thing that is most common here is that they all drink. A lot. Now here is my problem. I talk to these people and their grandparents and parents either never had acne or had mild acne. There always was acne but never the extent as today. What I see is our generation iwth a much higher rate of acne than most other generations. What has changed? They still churn butter and make cheese just as their grandparents did. They stil eat the same amount of red meat as previous generations. If anything they drink less than before. They are exposed to roughly the same quality of soils, the same pollution rates as their parents, the same types of foods in general, etc... yet they have much more acne.

Here is what I see as the difference. They eat more fast food. Butter, cheese, breads, wine, olive oils, fruits and veggies etc.. are the main staple but they are eating more and more fast foods. What is the difference between a saturated fats from the good sources and from McDonalds? Or the effect on insulin between a Big Mac and some milk and cheese with a rack of lam and a good quality beer? What I am getting at is that the fast foods are horrible nutrientwise but as far as affecting the hormone levels it is comparably similar, or should be based on the macronutrient compositions. Well, I suppose the main difference is the trans fats levels. That and people are moving away form a diet high in veggies and fruits.

They are getting less exercise. They are riding public transport more and more instead of walking. They are doing less outdoor sports. They have amazing cities which are perfect for walking, biking, etc... but they are choosing not to in increasing numbers(Maybe the tourists are a pain). I constantly hear thier parents always swam int he ocean constantly, telemarked in the Alps, played footbal every chance they could get.

They are generally more moody and consumption oriented, moving towards our North American Ideals instead of a saving up for something quality and being happy witht he purchase. Depression is on the rise. They are impatient, they are less family oriented, are less optimistic. They are using thier minds less for the arts and more towards pop culture and the media. To put it simply, psychologically they are less well off than previous generations. Again, this is talking to many people my age and their parents and just observing their lives.

The above applies to north american generations as well.

I don't really know where I am going with this except to say that apart from fast foor or processed food in general(Or course bread, cheese, wine, etc.. is processed but you know what I mean, prepackaged foods I suppose although cheese is liek this as well). It just seems like save for the above, diet is less a factor to acne than overall health. In my observation, 3rd world nations don't have acne, not because of diet but because of genetics, exercise, sun exposure, family and community oriented culture, etc... The opposite applies to the reason I think that first world nations are increasingly getting acne.

yes we are turning to more processed and fast foods, but I don't think it is because of butter, alcohol, breads, dairy(For those that are lactose tolerant), etc... that we have acne, rather it is because we are taking out foods like vegetables, soluble fiber foods, etc... I thikn acne sufferers can still enjoy the above so called bad foods that I mentioned if they also eat lots of the good ones. People are also becoming couch potatoes. A few hours of exercise everyday was considered nothing 50 years ago and before but ask people now to exercise for 1/2 hour 4 times a week and they throw a fit and say it can't be done. Ask people to quit watching the TV, quit playing videogames and start reading books, learing a language or an instrument, spending time with family, etc... and we scoff at the idea. Even things that are meant to enhance us psychologically such as those baby Tv shows and complex toys are shown to be hindering us as they leave no room for imagination. We are going progressing backwards mentally it seems. Einstein and socratese had the learning process right and yet we don't learn from their discoveries. If most knew how he discovered relativity, they would be shocked. That was a bit of a ramble but it all comes down to one of the most important thigns when it comes to acne, mental health.

For me, controlling stress, controlling your moods, basically centering your life around the things that really matters, helps immensely with regards to hormone balances, your immune system, your digestive system, your cardiovascular health and other vital areas that may or may not have to do with acne.

They are saying the french diet is now becoming bad becuase of rising heart disease but that isn't because of the cheese or wine or chocolates, it's because they are moving towards a more unhealthy lifestyle, mentally and physiologically.

I could be totally wrong but for most people I can't see many of the diet-acne connections(Well I can see them but I don't think they play as big a role as some of you do). Of course I can't explain the positive impacts this has had on people like you sweetjade and for these situations it seem like the diet worked.

Finally my solution question. If you are willing to spend so much time on the acne-diet issue, why not address the only real solution to acne, hyperkeratinization? Of all the traits of acne: keratinization, sebum production, inflammation, bacteria etc... why not try to find a cure for the one that could end all acne? You can have oily skin, an excessive inflammation response, either have or not have acne, yet if you have clogged pores you will eventually get a lesion as you can never halt sebum production or bacteria on the face(Nor would you want to), and you always want some inflammation. I think what seperated the acne sufferers from the clear people is the normalization of keratin production and the normalization of keratinization. Once I cleared up, within a month you could never tell I ever had acne. The texture and tone of my skin did a complete reversal and I know it's because of normalizing keratinization. Ifyou could somehow use your amazing investigating skills to search the known information liek you did with diet, I think you could be the one to solve this. Accutane and other retaniods have come theclosest to this but they aren't usually permanent.

I've had some really long posts onmany issues but this is probably the last one that I will do as I have said everything I need to say in this one and in past topics. Congratulations if you made it to the end of this tome.

You know, there's a real difference between the milk and butter that are sold in the stores nowadays and what our grandparents used to eat. My grandpa died of an unnatural cause (accident) at the age of 89, and he lived mostly on raw butter (the REAL stuff and not the homogenized and pasteurized poison we get today), potatoes, veggies, and meat from the local butcher (organic and natural meat). Before the accident, I swear he was more healthy than many kids I see today drinking nothing but Cola all day long.

The same applies to many rural areas in Canada up here and pretty much most of Europe. The butter, meat, breads, etc... are of the same high quality and are made with the same methods of generations past. They go to a special person for cheese, for meats, they go to the market for the best veggies I have ever seen(Go to France and compare the cheap veggies at the market there to the stuff at Safeway here). They have big stores but nothing like the Costco's, Walmarts, etc.. that we have in NA.

This is really interesting to me because I'm beginning to believe more and more that something similiar to your thoughts above is the reason I still have my stubborn mild acne. That it could be more of a mental thing, than a physical one, if you will.

Ever since I hit my early teens, I've become a very anxious person who becomes stressed very easily, fears change, and doesn't look forward to her future as an adult. I'm introverted & creatively minded - I view that creativity as one of my talents, one that could possibly get me somewhere in life if I looked at life more positively than I do. Unfortunately, I tend to look at things negatively. My moods are very sporadic. I'm not happy with myself and how I deal with - and look at - life. Over the past year, I've been able to realize that about myself in a way that I hadn't before. I'm more aware every day that I need to change, it's just very hard and I'm struggling with it.

I spent the last year in a place I didn't want to be in. I hated it. I was a virtual hermit the entire time I was there. I was miserable, and eventually I had one of the worst breakouts of my life. I wasn't thinking about acne at the time or dieting or my physical health, I was just unhappy with everything. I blamed myself for making the mistake of moving there. When I was able to come home, for a month afterward, I was content. I went out every day, enjoyed the little things that I hadn't appreciated before. Spent time with my friends, people who mattered to me. It was one of the happiest times I've experienced in about seven years. My acne went from horrible to very mild within that time frame.

I've made major changes with my diet over the years, and I've always had at the least, mild acne. I stopped wearing make-up, I cut out foods, etc.... but I was still that overanxious, isolated, stressed, unhappy person who didn't know how to deal with her life or enjoy the things that are out there for her to enjoy. Funny, I've been that person for so long, and I've had acne for so long....and it never occurred to me that that could be the reason behind the acne. My mental and psychological health.

so all this cases are actually the cause of acne ? how to check out, that i have leaky gut ? [food alergies can be tested, the same with hormones]

Josette, I was really extroverted but exremely creative as well. It was funny because I was also extremely anxious and irritated easily. I wasn't nervous around people or anythign but I always had a knot in my stomach and was on edge. When I finally learned to relax, with the help of meditation, innertalk, etc... it was a totally unique feeling to not have that knot in the pit of my stomach. It was so foreign to me and I realized that I couldn't remember not having that anxious sick feeling, kind of like some people in their 20's can't remember themselves with clear skin. Of course, just because I subscribe heavily to mind over matter for many things, I don't think it's the answer for many with regards to acne(Of course for overall health nothing can beat it).