Hi All,

OK, I've heard ya...well most of ya. Some, or would it be most of you, just don't seem to (fully) understand how diet can play a role in acne development, is this correct?

OK, I know that some of you get confused or bored when some of us start talking in scientify terms (I like that "word") and while we could make it simpler, it doesn't empower you for us to always do so. Why? When we use a term like Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1), this makes what we say seem almost credible or valid. Now if you take that term and put it into pubmed or some other (full-text) journal database and combine it with "acne" and "diet", "food", "wheat", or "trans fat" or some other combinations of other dietary components, you will discover for yourself (how awesome is that) what we are talking about.

Yes, I also know that you get bored, tired, overwhelmed, or lost when members, such as myself, make loooooong posts. I do apologize for this as I never know how long it will take me to respond to someone's question. Some people a paragraph is sufficient, but for others, yes it can take as much as 5 pages....to explain the same thing

Now below is a list of events that contribute to the development of acne and if I forgot one please mention it. Everyone is welcome to chime in on what they feel is the biggest contributor and why, but I will try to explain the process of each of them from a diet perspective in parts (seperate posts) in hopes of making things a bit simpler.


How Can Diet Influence (not in any specific order):

1) Hormonal balance, increase hormones, or increase androgens?
2) Sebum production?
3) Hypercornification or microcomedone formation?
4) Bacteria, candida, & other overgrowth of normal flora?
5) Hyperproliferation or skin cell overgrowth?
6) Hyperkeritinization or thickening of skin cells?
7) Hypodesquamation or poor skin cell shedding?
8) Development of Inflammation?
9) Different anti-acne regimens or why aren't there universal pro-acne foods?
10) Our genetic makeup?



Furthermore, below is a list of various forms of acne. Reason? Acne is not just Acne. There are specific types (acneforms), specific locations, specific irritators/stimuli, and sometimes specific treatments for each. In fact, some of us, I know I do, probably have more than one type. So, if we take these different types into consideration, perhaps it will be a bit easier to understand why one person's solution, wasn't yours or vice versa.

ACNE:

Aestivalis
Chloracne
Comedonica
Congloblata
Cosmetica
Cystica
Detergicans
Excoriee
Fulminans
Infantum
Inversa
Mechanica
Neonatorum
Papulopustulosa
Pustulosa
Rosacea(has subtypes)
Venenata
Vulgaris
etc.
[can you tell the cause by the name?]

http://www.dermis.net/doia/abrowser.asp?zu...cne&type=search (pictures)
http://atlases.muni.cz/atl_en/main+nenadory+vlas.html (pictures)
http://www.skincarephysicians.com/acnenet/acne.html (descriptions)
http://www.acnegroup.org/aboutacne.php4 (description)

Of course, what I hope we all learn from this is that while the above events seem seperate, they tend to utilize the some of the same "ingredients" (proper names later) and as such, you may find that there's some repetition in the process for each. For those interested, this should further aid you in understanding those scientify terms as well as further expanding your comprehension of the diet-acne connection. Otherwise, I'll start with either #1 or #3 tomorrow as I really need to get some sleep.

G'night

i didnt nderstand ill sudden grow explained it precisely

QUOTE




If you like to know more, please visit this site : http://acneyoda.com/cause_of_acne.html

Here is the short explaination that I copied from the site:





That's how the unhealthy process food may cause the acne due to the liver is overloaded.
For more information you can google Adult Acne.

This post has been edited by SweetJade1980: Jul 2 2005, 09:43 AM

Okay smart guy, that was a ton of info! I found that very interesting; I guess that might be why beer breaks me out. My poor liver Anyway, I am curious if you believe that food allergies can cause acne? I read that the reason some people break out and others do not, can be due to an allergic reaction to food. Kind of like some people are allergic to poison ivy and others aren't. I do believe acne is a sign of serious internal problems. You did leave off the improper shedding of skin cells. At least I believe this is another cause of acne because that is what I think caused my acne. What helped me tremendously was SA and bp. I would like to hear thoughts on this.

Baby Blue

Sound like anyone you know?




(to enlarge, move cursor to lower right corner and click the button that appears)

Delta force,

In order to gain some perspective, let's define toxic & toxin:

Webster's Dictionary http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary







WordNet 2.0 http://wordnet.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn...ge=1&word=toxin



MedicineNet http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5828



Based on the above, hopefully we can now establish just what is meant by "a very particular kind of highly congesting blood and lymph fluid toxins" that you quoted earlier. Hmm...well at least the ability to understand that "toxins" isn't something that we get just from pollution & chemicals & synthetics, but that animals, and thus human beings, bacteria, other microorganisms & organisms (i.e. parasites) and plants are also capable of producing toxins.

So even if one does have high androgen levels, for example, if the liver is capable of breaking down (inactivating) and then they are eliminated, then theorectically we shouldn't have any problems. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...126&query_hl=10

For those that don't know, the liver has a ton of enzymes that it produces to either make hormones or break them down. It also has enzymes to break down food particles (or substances on the food), and sometimes these particles have by-products that are toxic, BUT the liver has enzymes to neutralize most/some of these....IF it can produce enough.

Indeed, the liver is an amazing warehouse or factory where upon it it not only creates enzymes, to help metabolize foods, drugs, & detoxify, but also creates growth factors (IGF-1), filters antigens (basis for liver flush), and immune mediators (think inflammatory products) that all play a role in acne development, among other disease. http://biomed.brown.edu/Courses/BI108/BI10...NormalLiver.htm

So, when the above definitions mentioned animals and plants as producing toxins...did food come to mind when you read that? Whatever toxins (excess Growth Hormones, viruses, etc) that animal has, can sometimes be passed on to other animals and humans, i.e. mad cow disease (shudder). Of course, plant foods can also produce their own toxins, which is why some foods or parts of a plant are NEVER eaten (a seed, a root, a leaf etc).

Here's the kicker though, plant foods can be toxic to those that have an inability to metabolize them properly. Yet what makes this so confusing is that what is toxic to one person, may not be toxic to another and vice versa (think genetics x environmental exposures).

Hmm, so what inability could determine this?

A Damaged Liver - a Liver Panel will detect this in cases of cirrohsis, hepatitis, but this is only a handful of enzymes that the liver produces.

A Homornal Disorder - Your liver doesn't have to show "damage" to have a chronic, long term, imbalance. You must check for each enzyme.

A Leaky Gut - More scientific term would be intestinal hyperpermeability or increased permeability to foods, chemicals, or other substances that would normally not be capable of entering the blood stream. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...0980&query_hl=1

A Food Allergy - A state of hypersensitivity induced by exposure to a particular antigen (allergen) resulting in harmful immunologic reactions on subsequent exposures, the term is usually used to refer to hypersensitivity to an environmental antigen (atopic allergy or contact dermatitis) or to drug allergy.
http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=allergy

A Food Intolerance - see above. Aside from different antigens & enzymes involved, the main difference is that this happens to be a delayed reaction that can take several days, years, or decades before signs, symptoms, or disease occurs (remember this for later).

A Chemical Sensitivity - see above

Unknown Factor(s) - ???

With most of the above, the tricky part is that genetics isn't always solely at play here. Sometimes it's because of a certain combination of events that can cause these problems to occur. High doses of NSAIDS (non-steriodal anti-inflammatories, i.e. Motrin, Asprin) over a long period of time, antibiotics use over a long period of time, coupled with too much of a certain food, and you've created an environment that could lead to intestinal damage, and thus increased intestinal permeability.

Therefore, after you've eaten and digested a particular food in such an environment, while broke down as it may be, it's particles are now small enough to enter into the blood stream, due to increased intestinal permeabilty, and your body will from then on determine that food particle is an invader (antigen) and attack it with antibodies. This pretty much explains Food Allergies, Food Intolerances, and perhaps certain Chemical Sensitivities....and possibly other Inflammatory Diseases (like acne). http://www.mightyzero.com/restoring_gut_permeability


So, hopefully explains why some of you may feel that there's "nothing safe to eat" when you read other members anti-acne diets. Yes there may be foods that we have in common, but due to the above circumstances, that can also vary from person to person and only you can determine what foods affect you in this manner. Afterall, how can I tell you exactly what to avoid, when I wasn't around when you were 14 or 16, consuming who knows how many types of NSAIDs, alcoholic breverages, cigarrettes, nor the amount of stress you were under, the amount of nutrients you consumed (or didn't), and what foods you ate during that time period? Sadly, those are all factors.

Of course, if you know you have one of the above health problems, there are methods and actual lab tests one can take (more on this later) to help you figure this out, and as such, I hope that brings you some comfort. Along with the comfort in that there's no need to be paranoid and there's especially no need to avoid ALL foods that you see us avoiding (do not do this). If you know what you have, you could probably take a pill for it...if that's what you want to do.

Although, I believe the protocol of choice here is that if one finds that the foods they avoid have nothing (directly) to do with the Insulin-Hormone response (see next post), then it's possible that by healing your leaky gut and doing what you can to strengthen your liver (liver aids, liver flush, detoxes, etc) you may be able to eat more or all of those foods once again. Doesn't that sound fantastic?

i hate it when my boyf eats crap all the time and his skin glows and is spot free

sweetjade, you are phenomenal. thank you!

LOL, just remember that usually no one is perfect. Yet I certainly do hope that in all ways he is still a picture of health.

Aww thank you, that's so sweet of you to say. BTW, have you gotten an Endocrinologist appt. yet?

Diets Role in Hormonal Balance

First of all, when it comes to the role that androgen hormones play, there appears to be 2 Types of Acne Sufferers:

A) Those that have skin that is sensitive to normal amounts of androgens (90% of sufferers)

B) Those that overproduce androgens or have hyperandrogenism (10% of suffers)

While hyperandrogenism seems like the likely place to start, I can't help but think that the 90% of acne sufferers would love to know diets role in their life first. Well, what immediately jumps out at me is the word "sensitive'. Majority of acne suffers are just sensitive to normal amounts of androgens! In other words, the skin of most acne sufferers for some reason is sensitive, hyper-responsive, overreacting, to something that is....Normal???

HOW can that be?

LOL, well I don't know that answer, but the predominant theory is that there is an androgen receptor defect or some other malfunctioning receptor or defect in the skin that is causing this increased sensitivity. Well OK, that makes sense after all, not everyone gets acne, and even those that have hyperandrogenism don't always have acne. So, yea there is a genetic component to this, BUT our diet has the ability to turn on or off certain genes!

So, does that mean that changing my diet will fix the defect?

Well, I can't say for certain because the defect(s) haven't been fully discovered yet. Therefore, on a cellular level we can't ethically compare the skin of an acne sufferer before dietary changes and then after to see how much repair was done. However, what we can do is look at testimonials, anecdotal evidence, and journal articles which gives myself, fellow members, and others including doctors, nutritionists, biologists and other scientists a better idea of what's going on. Aside from just looking at before and after pictures or lesions counts, there is also a wide variety of chemical & hormonal changes that occur that can also be compared by analyzing various blood and urine samples (see your Endocrinologist). For example, an acne sufferer that is actually hyperandrogenic, will discover that their excess hormones will be reduced upon following a diet (& exercise) regimen tailored specifically for them.

Now getting back to the whole “sensitive� issue, what do you know about people that are sensitive to things, especially things that are considered normal? Doesn’t that remind you of a(n):

Auto-immune disease - body attacks something of self, something it produces. This would include diseases such as Thyroidititis, Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, etc (btw, those listed have acne as a symptom or involve an androgen disorder).

Allergy - attacks something of non-self, but is usually considered harmless to other people. This is more of an instant or immediate reaction occurring within minutes to 24 hours of exposure.

Food Intolerance - attacks something of non-self, but is usually considered harmless to other people. This is a delayed response where it can take days, months, or even years to develop signs, symptoms, or a disease from usually constant exposure.

Chemical Sensitivity - attacks something of non-self, but is thought to be harmless to most people. This would include things like Sulfites, Food Coloring, MSG, Splenda, etc and can have an immediate or delayed response.

Well, at least that's what comes to mind when I think of sensitivity. Furthermore, after one has been exposed to their stimuli, the body is capable of doing something that would normally take weeks or months to do, in a much shorter period of time. Along with being sensitive, one of the symptoms can be irritation. If something gets irritated enough it can thicken and scale up (hyperkeritinization?) and/or become inflammed. Hmm…isn’t acne an inflammatory skin disease? In fact, some believe that ALL forms of acne are inflammatory…keep this in mind for later. However, regarding hormones, lets start at the beginning.

Now, of course it doesn’t matter WHAT you eat before you hit puberty, chances are you won’t develop acne as a result because you do not have (enough of) the hormones to do so yet! Granted, there are cases where about 20% of infants and toddlers develop a form of acne (acne infantum/infantilis) that usually goes away in a few weeks, or if it is due to a hormonal disorder, it must be corrected for, otherwise acne doesn't occur without good reason. See, acne CAN be a sign of something temporarily or seemingly permanently imbalanced in our system and it’s best if we can all learn to accept that so we can move on to fixing it, right?

So once you hit precocious puberty (< 8 years of age), another sign that you are more at risk for health and hormonal problems, or just puberty, your body enters into “a temporary state of insulin resistance�, except did you know that insulin resistance is also considered a chronic inflammatory disease? Nonetheless, as a result of this increase in insulin, what signs appear during the pubertal teen years? Acne, Weight problems, Diabetes (type I), Depression…OK just as long as you know that these same health problems, among many others, occur in adults later on in life presumably due to the same thing…Insulin Resistance.

Fine. So WHAT is the big deal with Insulin?

Well it is this amazing pro-hormone that can initiate a wide range of metabolic events necessary for proper growth and development. It’s not just about ensuring that our cells get filled with glucose and fats, but it’s presence for some reason also affects our steroid hormone levels. Steriod hormones include aldosterone, cortisol, pregnenolone, progesterones, androgens, and estrogens. Depending on what type of hormonal disorder one may have, most of these play a role in acne development. Due to there being quite a few hormonal disorders that can have acne as a symptom, I’m going to stick to the most popular hormone and focus on androgens role in all of this.

Now, the way insulin affects our androgen levels is by reducing our levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG). SHBG has a much higher affinity for binding to androgens than it does estrogens. In fact, it is something that increases with our estrogen levels and with lower levels of insulin. So if SHBG is lowered by higher amounts of insulin, then our Free Testosterone (Androgen) will also be higher. I believe we are supposed to have no more than 2% of our androgens in Free Testosterone form. This amount is what will bind to the androgen receptors in various parts of the body to initiate growth. Growth of muscles, of the prostate, and of sebaceous glands, are examples of what this anabolic (building) hormone can do.

So, what happens when we have more than 2% Free Testosterone?

Well, it differs for everyone, but some will have a fantastic libido, or big muscles, others experience androgenic alopecia (male pattern baldness), hirstuism, acne, seborrhea, etc. Doesn’t always sound like a good thing, does it? Well that’s where our diet comes into play.

The foods we eat, our diet, contain macronutrients (water, carbohydrates, protein, fats, vitamins & minerals) and serve as the building blocks for the human body. Did you get that? These macronutrients are the Building Blocks, our FUEL, our brick & mortar and everything in between! They usually work for us, but unfortunately during misguided times (clashes with your genetic makeup) or abuse (over-consumption) they can work against us. This is especially true with all the pesticides, natural & chemical hormone-mimickers, and trans fats in our foods. All of these things and more have the ability to affect certain people more than others, which is why not all have us have the exact same “anti-acne� diet.

Now, these macronutrients have the ability to mess with our hormone levels by for starters increasing our glucose levels, which will increase our insulin levels. As a result of the increase in insulin, there will usually be an increase in IGF-1. Now, IGF-1 is apparently 10x more potent than just insulin and that’s thought to be due to it binding to insulin, in order to reduce it’s presence in the blood stream, but this doesn’t always happen. Indeed, an increase in insulin doesn’t only decrease SHBG, but it also decreases IGFBP-3 (& IGFBP-1), which is known as Insulin-like Growth Factor Binding Protein-3. It’s job…wanna guess? Alright fine, it’s job is to bind to IGF-1. That’s right, but that can’t happen if our body has too much insulin present in the blood stream. So as a result, other growth factors (happen to be inflammatory) will come along and bind to IGF-1 in order to reduce its presence and activity in the body.

Hmm…OK, did anyone catch what just happened?

Insulin lowered our SHBG & our IGFBP-3 the two things we need to safely keep Free Testosterone and IGF-1 in check! Now that these aren’t in check, they are free to do their worst. So not only has our Free Testosterone reached the androgen receptor on the skin cells, but IGF-1 has joined and is quite happily working on enlarging the sebaceous gland, increasing oil production (that’s another theory), initiating other growth-related events, and because it can’t be bound sufficiently, inflammatory products have come along to do so. Funny, kinda sounds like the pathway to possibly developing cystic acne. You know, that sore, swollen, enlarged type…although it could also be a microcomedone, but more about that later.

Furthermore, noticed when I mentioned fats earlier? Well, the most amazing thing about the whole diet-acne connection is that without fat, theorectically we couldn't have acne. See, sex steriod hormones such as Testosterone are derived from cholesterol and cholesterol is made from lipids. Not to mention, a certain amount of inflammatory products also rely on lipids or fatty acids for their production such as arachidonic acid, which increases PGE2 (hormone regulating & inflammatory prostaglandin). I suppose that's why in 1977 a medical doctor published Acne Can Be Cured (I've got a copy) and I believe one of our members, Doberwoman (a scientist), says when she follows his diet perfectly, she's clear. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846

So, that is the short end of how our diet affects the amount of not just insulin, but hormones, chemicals, growth factors, and inflammatory products that are also associated with acne development. So for those that are just “sensitive,� when you change your diet you’re doing so not so much to balance your androgen levels, but in hopes of lowering your IGF-1 (skin cell proliferator), your PGE2 (inflammatory prostaglandin), TNFa (immune mediator, pro-inflammatory) etc (semi-long list).



(to be continued)

Ok, so want examples now?

While I’m a fan of recent studies, below I’ve also posted some older ones because I want you to see the progression of technology and discovery and of course because I want you to know how long they’ve been aware of these various connections:

Acne – Hormone Connection
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...206&query_hl=41 (1965 – males) – NO abstract available

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...164&query_hl=41 (1975 – females)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...451&query_hl=51 (1992 – female)


(2000) FREE Full Text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...41&query_hl=157 (2003)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...747&query_hl=62 (2004) Free Full Text



Acne – Insulin/IGF-1 Connection

(1988)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...072&query_hl=47 (1998)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...68&query_hl=188 (1999 - females)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...448&query_hl=62 (2003 – females)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...33&query_hl=100 (2003)

(2005) Free Full Text



Insulin/IGF-1 – Hormone Connection
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...454&query_hl=27 (1980 – males)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...174&query_hl=27 (1980 – females)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...97&query_hl=177 (1985)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...56&query_hl=177 (1989)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...46&query_hl=177 (1992)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...88&query_hl=160 (2003)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...34&query_hl=177 (2003 – females)

(2004 - females) Free Full Text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...17&query_hl=167 (2004 - males) Free Full Text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...28&query_hl=173 (2004 – male) Free Full Text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...68&query_hl=157 (2005 – females)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...41&query_hl=157 (2005 – females)



Diet/Food – Insulin/IGF-1 Connection
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...65&query_hl=146 (1996 – females)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...29&query_hl=138 (2000) Free Full Text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...59&query_hl=127 (2002 - males) Free Full Text

(2004 – males)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...80&query_hl=167 (2004)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...20&query_hl=177 (2004) Free Full Text



Diet/Food – Hormone Connection

J (1987 – males)

(1995 – females)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...24&query_hl=114 (1998 - male)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...41&query_hl=114 (1998) Free Full Text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...10&query_hl=114 (2001 – male)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...18&query_hl=127 (2003 – female) Free Full Text

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...46&query_hl=177 (2003)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...82&query_hl=167 (2005 – males)


Diet/Food Macronutrients – Acne Connection
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...252&query_hl=70 (1975) NO Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...553&query_hl=92 (1976)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...350&query_hl=70 (1978)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...616&query_hl=90 (1985)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...543&query_hl=89 (1991)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...437&query_hl=92 (2001)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...46&query_hl=100 (2002)



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...64&query_hl=155 (2005)


Yes, I know perhaps some of you will accuse me of bombarding and trying to overwhelm and confuse you with all of these abstracts, but that is why I predominantly posted links instead. You can pick and choose from them as you like, but most of them vary in some form or another. Of course, if you chose not to read them or the full studies (the coveted scientific evidence you long for) and you chose not to believe what I say, nor what others say, then that decision is what you will have to live. Unfortunately, I’ve had to learn that no matter what some of us do, there are people that won’t listen and won’t believe the truth no matter what.

Now, for those of you that did manage to sift through some of the links and you’ve got more questions, please ask them, but hopefully some of the answers will be found in later posts. I honestly hope that this will help you better understand the diet-acne connection. I know it doesn’t fit with what most doctors and dermatologists are telling you, but you have to remember, that some are General doctors, focusing on basic & multiple aspects of health, and others are Specilazed, focusing on 1 - 3 aspects. That means that some aren't paying enough attention and others aren't paying ANY attention to certain things. Besides with all of their patients, most doctors aren’t always able to be research oriented, but when looking for answers, we should still look toward scientific research and, more importantly, those that are peer-reviewed clinically controlled double-blinded studies, right? Well, most of the studies I posted fall into that category and I couldn’t say what I say or feel what I feel without knowing that there’s research to back me up.

Furthermore, I don’t know if any of you caught it, but I did post studies that seemed to almost conflict with our usual theory that these diets are anti-androgenic. Why? Well for those that are concerned it may affect your masculinity, it doesn’t quite work that way. There have been times when I found articles that said the opposite and, after looking at additional articles along with factoring in one’s age, gender etc., I learned that these diets can also be anti-estrogenic!

What, HOW can that be?

Yeah, that’s when I realized that ultimately these diets goal is to bring about hormonal balance and depending on what gender you are and/or your imbalance, the diet will work to correct for it. LOL, well no wonder, after all the same basic aspect of these diets happen also to fall under anti-proliferative (anti-cancer), anti-hyperkertinization, and anti-inflammatory all of which happen to contribute to the development of acne, right?


OK, OK so what foods can affect hormonal balance for those that have a sensitivity to normal amounts or for those that have a hormonal disorder?

Alcohol - with Gluten, all grain based, or high carbohydrate versions

“Too Much� Food – Too many calories or certain macronutrients.

Altered Food – Trans Fats, Genetically Modified Foods (GMO), Fermented foods

(Factory) Farmed Animals – mercury, growth hormones, antibiotics

Inorganic plant foods – pesticides, herbicides, etc

Goitrogenic foods – Special category for those susceptible to Hypothyroidism and well, sometimes too much soy products can induce this in those that weren’t susceptible.

Chemicals (added to foods) – Caffiene, MSG, Sulfates, Nitrates, Food Colorings (not all but some), Splenda/Sucralose

Inflammatory Foods – Allergenic, Intolerant, or some other food unique to the individual

Mishandled Foods - not refrigerated properly or cooked properly can increase exposure to bacteria and possibly parasites.

(Smoking - Nicotine increases inflammation among other problems)

(Lack of Exercise – slows metabolism, increases disease)

(Lack of Sleep – disrupts circadian rhythm)


Hmm...does that mean I have to avoid ALL of these things?

Of course not. While in an ideal world it would be great if we can live that pure organic holistic lifestyle, not everyone is capable of doing so and not everyone has to. With the exception to the way foods are being processed these days, there is NO such thing as purely bad, evil, or wrong foods. If there were, these would be deemed poisonous and NONE of us would be eating them! However there are foods that are more favorable and less favorable in preventing acne and disease, but sometimes this depends on the consumer. In other words, you only have to avoid the foods or chemicals, etc that cause you problems. Once again, if you know your health or hormonal problem, you’ll have a better idea of where to start, but if you don’t, your task is much greater…Yet if you find that your current methods are not effective enough, maybe you’ll want to give this a (2nd) chance.

You know earlier I had been watching Beyond Borders and I must admit, there were parts where I was crying. I just couldn’t understand why people don’t love each other enough, to do what’s right! I thought about how food can a make a world of difference to someone that’s starving and yet here I am talking about how food can contribute to acne. How laughable is that? Then I remembered, food can’t do everything, but for what it CAN do, why aren’t we using it for such? WHY aren’t we doing everything in our power to help ourselves? In countries where food is abundant, we don’t just use it to save our lives, but as unintentional as it may be, to also do us harm. In first world countries where we have the technology to surpass some third world diseases, HOW can we let something that is deemed “preventable� continue to hurt us? Whether it is 2 years, 10 years or 30 years before we feel the waning health effects, there was a point in all of our lives, probably several, where we could have made a different decision that would have prevented what is or what may become...but most people choose not to do anything at all. So when others, including myself, talk about this, it is not to induce fear, guilt or paranoia, but to further educate and empower you so that you are more equipped to help yourselves and, if no one else, those that you love and care for.

my dermatlogist actually told me that she feels there is a very stroong link between high gi foods and acne,as people in certain parts of the world who dont have acne,dont have the high gi diet that people in the western world tend to have.

i have followed a diet ,as a vegan for two years i remember my skin was good, but now its shit again,as i began eating milk ext,however i had finished a course of tane the year prior,so not sure if that was the reason i was clear or not

Diet is realted to health in general. In Europe we seem to have embraced this. GPs recently have been advised to prescribe diet and exercise rather than anti-depressants for instance.
Why do some people refuse to accept diet is related to skin conditions? Scurvy is due to lack of fruit, Rosacea and Eczema sufferers will tell you time and again that they have triggers that they avoid and that eating healthily is important, Docs & Derms accept this, yet tout quick fix crap like BP for Acne. I wonder what Dan will be saying 15-20 years from now about his regimen?
I think the ignorant try dairy/gluten/refined carbs free diets half heartedly (I read somebody saying she followed the healthy diet but ate white bread, so she didnt follow it, its like saying I gave up smoking but had the odd menthol ciggie which is OK) .They also expect an overnight fix and can't face giving up or even cutting back on their addiction to the nutritionless crap they eat and drink.

I reckon most people would rather change their religeon than their diet! You are so right about the way we use food in privelidged societies to harm ourselves and not heal - it comes from our attitude to life in general, I think, and the way we take so much for granted because we have been lucky enough to live in a world where food is'nt something we need so much as something we enjoy, often to excess - the tragedy of living in a throw away society where absolutely everything is wasted, and on more than one level. Mental desenisization on a mass scale....The key is education and a healthy dose of suspicion of all those too good to be true TV ads and the bastards out there who try to make money out of putting crap in our food, on our crops, in our animals and our whole environment generally.

I look forward to your next installment - really interesting and well explained stuff SJ, thanks for sharing your knowledge and making the path to understanding so much clearer....

THE ROLE OF DIET IN SEBUM PRODUCTION

Alright there are many theories regarding increased sebum production such as, overwashing, excess heat (external or internal), but along with that there still seems to be one that can’t be entirely written off…the role of androgens. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...7868&query_hl=5

The thing is, we have long thought that DHT or Dihydrotestosterone (super testosterone) was the culprit for sebum production and as such we have all waited for that magic pill, in this case a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, that would inhibit the enzyme necessary (thought to be Type I 5alpha reductase isozyme) for the conversion of testosterone into DHT. Problem is, 5apha inhibitors for either isozyme 1 or 2 or both….have been:


* Breaking people out that NEVER had acne

* Increasing acne in certain acne sufferers (i.e. males)

* Have yielded no results (i.e. females)


To further support this, here’s the study that seems to currently squash our hopes:



Therefore, it’s possible that DHT is NOT the contributor here but is just a measure of androgen receptor activity found to be increased in sebum. Granted I’m known for saying that not all studies are perfect, that the experimental designs are flawed or that they didn’t have the technology & knowledge at the time, and so it is still quite possible that DHT also plays a role in sebum production, yet…it still doesn’t discount diets role in affecting other factors in sebum production as well as DHT. After all, through diet (and exercise) if you reduce testosterone production or free testosterone availability then indirectly you’ve reduced the amount of testosterone that can be converted into DHT. Thus, perhaps the goal here isn’t to directly prevent DHT formation, but possibly to reduce or prevent androgen from binding to the androgen receptor.

OK…WHY?

Well, it’s been shown over and over again that various types of anti-androgens (Accutane, RetinA, Spironolactone, Birth Control, Avandia) work, yet currently 5-alphas inhibitors don’t have anything close to the same track record. Perhaps that’s because before or once androgen binds to the androgen receptor a host of processes occur, and while DHT production is one of them, preceding or along with that comes a rise in IGF-1, plus immune mediators that also contribute to the development acne. So what if it’s the IGF-1, PPARs, Iimmune Meadiators, etc that’s the problem?

Ready to find out?

Now, excess sebum has long been thought to be the reason for acne as well, right? OK, what about those people with:

Dry Skin

Oily Skin

That DO NOT have acne???

Hmm... perhaps excess sebum isn’t the main factor, but rather yet another measure of androgen receptor activity.

Notice, the studies on 5-alpha reductase inhibitors mentioned that there WAS a decrease in DHT and an INCREASE in Testosterone found in sebum. Now logically if you prevent DHT formation, you will have an increase in (Free) Testosterone because it’s not being converted. However, what about the other products that are found in sebum? What about those other INCREASED products that are found in sebum that studies have shown more directly participate in the production of acne? As such, the studies do not discount that sebum has a role, but what if that role is merely to act as a transporter for a variety of other factors that play a much larger role in acne production???

Hmm…if this is the case, then it DOES NOT matter how MUCH sebum you produce, what matters is WHAT your sebum contains.

Make sense???



Thus sebum contains: hormones, red blood cells, white blood cells, lipids, pro-inflammatory free fatty acids (arachidonic acid), pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-1, IL-6, IL-8, IL-12), leukotriene-beta, among other things depending on the nature of the your acneic condition (i.e. different types of microbes) that determines the type of acneform you have or will develop.

Furthermore, the above abstract mentioned that Isotretinoin, Accutane, as still being the most active drug for the treatment of severe acne. Yet, did you know that Accutane affects the sebaceous glands not just because of its anti-androgen and 5-alpha reductase abilities, but because of it’s anti-proliferative abilities as well (among other mysteries)???



Now, retiniods have this ability to regulate Insulin-like Growth Factor Binding Proteins and Accutane happens to increase IGFBP-3. If you were able to understand hormones role in acne based on my previous post, then you should know that IGFBP-3 binds to IGF-1, a cell proliferator, to lower it. Furthermore, you should have also learned that decreasing your insulin & free fatty acid levels through diet (supplements, or medications), can affect not only your SHBG levels (responsible for binding Free Testosterone) but also affect levels of IGFBP-3. Thus this is one way that diet can affect sebum production via regulating IGFBP-3.





Hmm… did you notice that this didn’t talk about accutane, 13-cis retinoic acid/Isotretinoin, specifically but mentioned All Trans Retinoic Acid (Retinoic Acid) and 9-cis retinoic acid as being major factors instead? This is because while accutane does increase IGBP-3, it also converts into all trans retinoic acid in order to quite possibly exert further affects on the sebaceous glands.



Furthermore, Retinoid X Receptors, or RXR-alphas, also bind to Peroxisome Proliferator-Activating Receptors (PPARs) to regulate keritinization, inflammation, and sebum production as well.











Of course, diet affects the activation or upregulation of PPARs. Too many calories, fat or refined carbohydrates in the diet and you’ll upregulate PPAR-beta/delta which is largely responsible for keritinization and a high amount of sebum production. Whereas, you move to a high fiber and low fat diet and you’ll upregulate PPAR-alpha and PPAR gammas, which are responsible for a reduction in sebum output, improving insulin resistance, and decreasing inflammation. Now you can also do this through supplementation if you like, but this thread is more specifically about dietary measures. http://www.acne.org/messageboard/forums.html...st=80 (page 5)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...93&query_hl=127


http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/9/2251



Of course some of you may have appreciated those abstracts and some of you probably didn’t. For those that would prefer a summary, I basically was trying to show you how diet affects sebum production via, at least two of the routes that Accutane does. Now we already know that SHBG binds Free Testosterone, but if this is left unbound (thanks to possibly our diets), then it's free to bind to the androgen receptor and continue along the path to acne production.

From a prior abstract in the hormone-diet post, it was indicated that we need both Androgens and IGF-1 to initiate acne development. Since retinoids, and thus accutane, increase IGFBP-3 which not only binds IGF-1, but also binds to the RXR-alpha receptors that are involved in sebum production, increasing this binding protein seems beneficial. Thankfully, we can naturally increase IGFBP-3 by reducing the amount of high calorie foods, insulinotropic (insulin stimulating) foods, animal saturated fats, and eliminating trans fats in the diet.

Furthermore, since those same foods can also activate PPAR beta/delta which further increases sebum production, inflammation, and hyperkeritinization, the goal is to alter your diet to reduce their expression while increasing the expression of PPAR alpha and PPAR gammas…those that reduce insulin resistance, inflammation, and sebum production. Yes while, you can do this through medication (see the supplement link above), they have side effects and can also lead to over-expression of PPAR-gammas, which can lead to further complications. Therefore, to reduce complications and other side effects, or just to save money, more of you may want to consider diets role in acne produciton if your current regiment is working effectively enough for ya!

So, hopefully this helped show you diets role in a few aspects of sebum production. I’m sure there are a few more but, I must admit that my brain has had more than enough of the diet-sebum role in acne production.., would anyone care to take over???

Bye for now

I still don't have a clue what the connection is, and i doubt i ever will!

this is alot of info to read,it seems to just confuse me.
im soon to start my nutrition course so im sure i will no more then,i was a vegan and that helpt my skin? any thoughts on that anyone?

i feel its the dairy connection mainly?

LOL, sorry. What exactly is your concern with the connection? Is it the hormones the sebum or some other aspect of acne you've always heard contributed and you don't understand where diet plays a role?

Unfortunately if the above abstracts confused you than I do apologize. They are there so that you can see how my mind works, lend some credibility to what myself and other members are saying, but more so for that that are doubtful, critical, or more scientific or research minded.

Of course, I welcome anyone to decipher what I said in order to make it easier for you and others to understand. I can come at it only so many different ways and reach so many people, but when someone else is capable of coming at it from a few more ways, even more people can be reached!

i wana just make sure im doing all the things i can do diet wise i guess,i just wondered what your opinion was on veganism and my thoughts on how my acne was alot better i believe on a veagn diet,why is this so,in your opinion?

LOL, yeah it wasn't as easy for me to put the sebum part together because half of it most of you have never heard of it! Honestly all you can do is reread it, read the links and do your own reserch. I promise you most of what I know I know because I did the exact same thing whenever someone presented something to me. It's not something I learned in biology books, but yes that does help to some extent, most of this I learned by researching, writing it down, writing down definitions and then putting the connections together on paper.


I opted not to mention many specific foods because some of this has to do with the immune response which has nothing to do with some the sugar-acne connection and I couldn't begin to say what food specifically affects someone. However dairy would be one of them for some people for various reasons:

Raisies IGF-1 (casien, & whey) which has an anabolic or building affect and the ability to increase androgens and inflammtory products on it's route to acne production via stimulating the growth of sebeceous glands and sebum prodution (remember IGFPB-3 binds this and can inhibit it's ability to do those things). - This was mentioned in the Hormone-Diet post as well as in the Sebum-Diet post.

Lactose Intolerances - if you are intolerant to something that means you may be lacking an enzyme. Signs include bloating, gas, but also inflammation (acne is an inflammatory disease)

Casien Allergy/Intolerance - ditto

Yup, I'm also studying nutriton now too and have a few classes lined up this fall. I'm really excited about taking the Nutrition & Disease course but unfortunately it was cancelled last year and since only 4 people have registered I fear it will be cancelled again =(