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Addie |
3,931 |
29th October 2009 04:41 AM Last post by: xandrine100 |
This technically refers to a different forum, but it's general enough to be funny.
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LionQueen |
4,243 |
1st January 2008 11:53 PM Last post by: Granny Wynnzy |
If anyone gets one of these PMs, please let the moderators know right away ..... we have had repeated problems with these spammers, and we'd like to shut them down as quickly as possible.
Just forward the nuisance PM to any mod who is active on the board at the time. Mods' names appear in red at the bottom of the page.
Thanks for your help!
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MissZaila |
6 |
Today, 02:43 PM Last post by: silently_suffering |
Hey everyone, I'm Zaila.
I'm a 3rd year college student living in California.
For some reason, I'm the only one in my (immediate) family to have acne issues.
I've had it since middle school and I used to cover it up with make-up so much back in the day which could be why it's a bit worse now.
Before, it was on my cheeks which cleared up but it has moved a bit south to my jawline and migrated north to my forehead which I have never had before until the last couple of months. It's really bad under my ears, on my jawline.
I also work as a make-up artist (at MAC) and my co-workers all wear tons of make-up but I usually go work without foundation (if I ever wear it, it's a foundation specifically and just use a concealer (with salicylicacid) on the spots.
It just seems like when I get rid of it one places, it starts somewhere else. It's really frustrating and I'm tired not being able to leave my house unless i have make-up on.
I just recently found out i have allergies to soy (and I'm lactose intolerant)
Don't tell me to try Proactiv, that worsened it for me. And I'm a college student budget so I couldn't afford to see a dermatologist if I wanted.
Who knows, maybe I'll find my answer here

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silently_suffering |
8 |
Today, 02:42 PM Last post by: SnoopyisAj |
I eat nothing but good-for-you, anti-inflammatory, organic, gluten-free food and wash with a mild, all-natural cleanser with a few drops of tea tree oil and jojoba oil and use a clay mask every other day and I'M STILL OILY AS HELL AND BREAK OUT.
I'm TIRED OF THIS and am getting close to ENDING IT ALL.
It seems EVERYTHING causes acne and there's NO WAY TO STOP IT
I've been dealing with this !%$& for NINE YEARS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've even spent THOUSANDS on laser treatments with ZERO SUCCESS
!%$& THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

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Dayviid |
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Today, 08:29 AM Last post by: Aquakill1988 |
hey guys just new wanting to make some online buddies i guess...well say hello!

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Lumpy D |
17 |
Today, 05:17 AM Last post by: Thin Lizzy |
Hi folks, new here although looked quite a lot on this site. I am nearly 36 and still having problems with my skin. Enough to make me have no life! I feel sorry for my other half. Not only do I not have a life just know but he doesn't either. I can't face anyone. Taken days off work but now forcing myself to go in but just want to sit and cry all the time.
I presently have a cyst (I think) more than 1cm in diameter, scarlet, swollen and blinkin sore! How embarrasing. Grey hairs working their way in, wrinkles and ACNE!
I know many people are worse of than me and I really feel for them because I know how crap I feel with this thing. I feel nobody can look at me seriously, that they are only looking at the cyst and thinking how disgusting it is. It is amazing when you read how many people have a problem with their skin because I don't know anyone on a personal level that does - that makes it even worse! I've got to the stage I am scared to go to bed becasue I don't know what I am gonna wake up with in the morning.
I am on tablets from the doctor and have been for a few years but this cyst keeps appearing year after year in the same place. I do have other pimples but in coparison to this monstor these are bareable. I want to see a dermatologist but my GP won't refer me and as far as I can make out (and I have tried various measures) this is the only way you can see a dermatologist in the UK, even if you want to go private! If anyone knows any different I'd be grateful to hear from them.
I keep reading about corsitone injections, but again I don't know if that is something you can get in the UK? God knows when this succer is gonna disappear. Before Christmas I hope but it has been there for nearly a month and I am convinced it is only getting worse!
I've tried BP, TCP, putting nothing on, hot compress, iced. Nothing working. I want to scream and go into hibernation until it's away. Believe me if I could, I would!
Probably bored you all now so I'll let you go. I'll go spot check again!! Take Care x

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pathetic_26 |
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Today, 03:43 AM Last post by: Intoxifornication |
Hi everyone! I'm pathetic_26 and I'm a college student. Obviously, the reason why I joined acne.org is because I have mild-moderate acne. My family had a history of acne and it was passed on to me. They're so many! They practically invading my face especially the cheeks and the upper neck portion. I had acne once but it managed to disappear by visiting a good dermatologist. This is the third time my acne reappeared. What's even worse is that school is going to start on Monday and I still have terrible acne! I'm really scared of the insults, prejudice and of course, the humiliation I'm about to go through. I revisited my old dermatologist on May 23 and I just had my second session last week (I should have started the session on April but my acne wasn't really acting up so I ignored it).
So far here are the prescriptions I have:
A.M:
1 capsule of F2F or Face to Face (Praventin)
Wash soap called Tincture of Green Soap
Clindamycin
Benzoyl Peroxide with Erythromycin Cream
AM/PM
Tetralysal 300mg
P.M
1 capsule of F2F or Face to Face
Wash soap called Tincture of Green Soap
Clindamycin
Retinoic Cream 0.05%
What is the estimated time acne will disappear? I'm really scared. I was planning not to go to school for a week to save myself from embarassment and so that I can have another session during the time.
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AlH |
20 |
Yesterday, 06:30 PM Last post by: waitingxforever |
Hi there I'm Alarif, or Al for short.
I don't suffer from acne on my face, but I am still ugly lol! Just a few spots and bumps here and there.
But my back on the other case is another story, I didn't notice I had bacne until I was 14, I'm 16 now and my idea of waiting it out has done nothing. It isn't really painful unless I accidently scratch my back and pop something, another problem is that when I take my shirt(s) off, there are blood stains on the insides. I've just joined a gym and was looking forward to going swimming but then I remembered that my upper/mid back is horrific! I've joined this website because I'm hoping to get some advice on how to treat my bacne, I haven't seen my doctor or a dermatologist or anything like that. I was going to buy the products off the store here, but with the shipping price added it is just too expensive for me. Any advice guys? I appreciate all the help and the people that just read all of that.

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bambacat99 |
77 |
Yesterday, 04:26 PM Last post by: bambacat99 |
Hey there! I've been reading many of the posts here and really appreciate the time and effort members put into each other's lives.
Sorry this is long and if you read it, thank you - I have appreciated all your contributions to this forum!
My story:
My high school years were plagued by acne...moderate, I would call it. Mainly white heads and acne vulgaris...some cystic. I never went to a dermatologist for it.
In my early 20's, I went to my first derm who put me on doxy 100 which I took for 3 months. Acne improved, then I quit filling my prescriptions and stopped going to the derm because I did not want to be on antibiotics, doxy hurt my stomach because I took it without food, foolishly, and I was just stubborn. I broke out terribly, worse then I ever had after that. My chest was "bumper to bumper" acne. Eventually it healed.
A year or so after that, I went to a new derm who took one look at me and said I was a perfect candidate for Accutane. That broke my heart. Acne was, and still is, an extremely emotional subject to me. I had read so many scary stories about that drug that there was no way I was going to go on it, so I refused. I told her about my previous antibiotic treatment and how I had improved but broke out after stopping it. She said that I "failed" antibiotic treatment. That upset me and I was not interested in going on antibiotics. She wrote me prescriptions for Duac gel in the morning and RetinA in the evenings...which, sad to say, I was sporadic in doing. I hated my skin and derms. It all depressed me.
Fast forward to now...
After working with a girl who had the same struggles I did, and seemed to be succeeding and had beautiful skin, I decided to give dermatology another try. November 2008, I went to a new dermatologist - actually the dermatologist's PA. She started me off on Doxy 100 mg twice a day to get my skin straightened out. Duac gel for morning and Differin for evening.
As time progressed, she decreased my Doxy to 100 mg ONCE a day. My acne got better, but I was still breaking out, especially around my period and was still oily. She gave me samples of Tazorac gel for evening, since they had no samples of RetinA at that time (which dried my skin out)...and then put me on RetinA gel...which I have been taking since.
At the end of August 2009, she put me on Doryx (Brand name doxy 150mg) once a day, because of my breakouts around my period. This was really helping my skin! But a month into it, I developed severe abdominal pain. I thought it was related to my gallbladder, but then it dawned on me that I had been taking this increased dosage of Doryx for a month. So I called and was switched to Minocyline 75 mg. twice a day (2 weeks ago).
Unfortunately, the abdominal pain continued. I took Mino, as I was supposed to, for about 2 days...then went on a weekend trip, in which my stomach really bothered me and I felt as if I was going to get sick. When I returned home, I only took mino 75 mg once a day and two days ago, decided to stop it completely, because my stomach was still hurting and I felt dizzy on it.
I have been reading nutritional advice on the forums here and decided yesterday, to remove dairy products from my diet.
I am anxious about the affects of completely stopping my antibiotics for fear I will break out terribly, as I did 6 or so years ago. I see my derm tomorrow and will tell her what I am doing.
As for now, I put Duac gel on in the morning and RetinA in the evenings. I wash my face with Clinique Mild liquid face soap (twice a day) and I use Olay Regenerist Serum as my moisturizer. When my oil picks up, I put Tazorac gel on instead of RetinA.
It's very frustrating to me that I still suffer from acne. I'm 28 years old, shouldn't this be over with? Ugh...
My friend, which I mentioned earlier with the beautiful skin, has been on all sorts of retinoids, vitamins, zinc, etc and even took Accutane for 7 months...and 3 months after it, begin to develop chin acne. (She is 33 years old.) We are both frustrated.
So, together, our goal is to start a low glycemic diet on 1/1/10.
One step at a time, I guess.
Thanks again for all the advice here!
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macker |
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Yesterday, 04:15 PM Last post by: macker |
Hi all,
First post to say hi from another person that suffers with ance.
I have had it since im early teens and am noe just about to turn 30
I have always got spots (not sure what kind) around my forhead for aslong as i can remember but as of the last two years i have been getting VERY large red lumps on both of my cheeks about two inchs under my eyes. I think they are boils but doc says they are mild acne. Mild!! DONT THINK SO DOC!!!!!!!
The doctor first had me on dimox (sp?) which done nothing for me. Im now just started on Tetralysal (lymecycline 408mg) for the last 5 days, so i will see how that goes.
Anyway thats me, looking forward to being clear skined soon.
Ill keep you posted.
Keep your head up people:-)
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Pacifia |
10 |
Yesterday, 11:27 AM Last post by: Pacifia |
Hello I've just joined since I have been searching for a cure to my acne for years, and thought I'd get some help from other people who have gone through the same thing. I have had acne since i was 14, and now I am 19. Through that time period, I've used many products such as proactive, clean & clear, st Ives, Neutrogena, and facial masks. I just last summer was using a St Ives apricot scrub, and I realized after using it for a few months it just seemed to get worse. Now I've been trying to find some home remedies, since lack of money to buy all of the drugstores products. I have moderate acne, very oily skin, with a reddish tone. It's incredibly hard to get rid of the redness for me, and it's so hard to cover it up. So anybody else have the same types of issues? I need more insight so I can find the perfect regiment for me.
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Evasive80 |
16 |
Yesterday, 02:23 AM Last post by: Evasive80 |
Hello friends! I ve been battling acne since I was 16 years old and I am now 29. The acne first started of on my face then worked its way on to my back and buttock. I am currently don't really have any face acne but my back is just a killer some times. Unfortunetly this seems to be a family affair because my father and brother had severe body and face acne. So I am hoping that this regimen will work for us. My brother was on accutane for a few months and he suffered from severe dry chap lips so that really didnt convince me to try since he continuallly breaks out. I've tried a number of things such as tea tree oil which just irritated my skin, vitamin a, e, nacin, fish oil, and many over the counter products like nuetrogena, proactive, noxzema, etc. I've change my diet several times doing a total fruit, locarb, and even atkins diet just to see if it would help improve my skin but no dice. So I am really hoping to try this regimen and I am open to any other suggestions at this point. Just wanna ease the pain of somebody pating my back or sitting down on a chair.
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The Man |
29 |
Yesterday, 01:49 AM Last post by: waitingxforever |
Hi, my name is louis, and I stumbled across this board lookin for tips on how to keep my face from breaking out and how to get rid of pimples zits etc.
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shanzy529 |
32 |
5th November 2009 08:26 PM Last post by: c'est la vigne |
Hello All,
I just started Dan's Regime last night, and today in the shower..I really wanted to use the apricot scrub like I do almost every night (I gave in and I did). I don't know what to do..it is hard to start his regime and not feel clean and perfectly exfoliated.
Any advise from people that have been on his regime with similar problem? Or just any advise on this?
Thanks!
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speels |
20 |
5th November 2009 08:14 PM Last post by: shanzy529 |
I'm 34. I've had acne for 26 years with no break. I have no memory of looking at my face and not seeing acne. I've been seeing dermatologists for twenty years (seven of them so far). I've used Accutane twice, Cleocin, Differin cream and gel, Retin-A cream and gel, Tetracycline, Minocin twice, Sulfacet, Erythromycin twice, Zeroxin, Metronidazole, Benzoyl Peroxide, most of the over the counter products and most of the home remedies. All of this has had the same effect as tap water. It's amazing how nothing has even helped me a little bit.
I wash with Cetaphil morning and night.
I brush and floss twice a day and use mouthwash and I don't have cavities or gum disease. I exercise and have a very healthy diet and I'm not overweight. But I take care of my skin and it's never healthy. I can only imagine how better my life would have turned out if I didn't suffer through this for so long. I'm to the point where I believe I will never be acne free. If I live to be 1,000 I'll still have acne.
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shanzy529 |
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5th November 2009 08:05 PM Last post by: shanzy529 |
Hello,
While I was reading other's regime blogs, it seems like most people have been doing his regime for a lonng time, and my question is: when will my skin ever be Clear even without BP to help? And Stay Clear?
Please let me know if you've been on this regime and successfully achieved your goal, but have you ever stopped using BP for a while (more than at least a month or so?) and didn't get break outs? I am afraid that my skin will become reliant on BP to kill acne prone bacterias.
It just seems crazy that I have been having acne for the past three years...I am starting to wonder if this is going to a LIFE long battle..I honestly hope NOTTTT!

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NancyM |
20 |
5th November 2009 07:28 PM Last post by: NancyM |
Hi guys;
I was looking through different posts on how to get rid of my acne and a friend from the forum refereed to me to this site: tinyurl.com/kta5zr . I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart! I am so glad that the people on this forum are really here to help and you guys know how it feels like to have bad skin like me.
Thank you so much; I never thought this would work!
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smiledonkey |
11 |
5th November 2009 02:23 PM Last post by: smiledonkey |
My only interest is just to help stop another sufferer.
Thanks a lot, feel free to pass it on if you like it at all.
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John DD |
27 |
5th November 2009 11:30 AM Last post by: John DD |
Morning Shower
- Triaz Cleansing Pads 6%
- Take Zinc 50 mg
- Drink water with half lemon
Night
- Take Solodyn 115 mg with dinner around 6:30
- Wipe my face with Neutrogena Make-Up Remover Cleansing Towelettes Night Calming
- Then rinse and use Acanya Gel
- Drink water with the other half of my lemon
And I always got like a pimple here or there but in September i completely broke out under my chin forehead every! I was so depressed but things are getting a lot better. I think it was from a combination of Anxiety, Stress, Hormones, and trying proactive and it completely dried out my face.
But now my face is smooth again & I am only getting acne around my jaw. I'm pretty sure i read this is from hormones so I starting taking zinc.
What do you guys think?
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porque |
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5th November 2009 12:22 AM Last post by: dead |
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John DD |
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4th November 2009 10:02 PM Last post by: c'est la vigne |
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samtheham1126 |
18 |
4th November 2009 09:51 PM Last post by: samtheham1126 |
Hi everyone,
My name is Sam and I've been battling acne for some time now. It wasn't until recently my skin was getting better and it's due to this skin guide SKIN. If you follow things correctly it really will help. I just wanted to share that with others! Well worth it!
Thanks and don't give up!
eBooks-Health-SKIN-A-Real-Guide-to-Healthy-Skin.html
is the book.
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shanzy529 |
29 |
4th November 2009 09:27 PM Last post by: c'est la vigne |
Hello All,
I just started this website last night. The interesting thing is--on the verge of desperation..I purchased Zenmed's $104 treatment package..Right after I was done making this purchase online..I came across this website AGAIN while I was searching for reviews on Zenmed's products. I have came across this website many times over the past few years when I research online for product reviews. I have never taken a good look around this website b/c I thought this is just another acne site to promote their "products". Then I realized that people who have joined this site are just like "me" in so many ways: want to get clearer skins!! Anyways, I made a phone call to Zenmed's corporate and canceled my product!! I want to stick to Dan's Regime for a while because it seems like it would work better and ALOT cheaper.
I am so thankful that I have found this site and I just started Dan's Regime last night with the BP mask for 15 minutes and gentle wash after and before and a good lotion.
I want to know where I could find out people who are CURRENTLY trying out his method..is there a journal entry site that people write on?
I am a newbie...I have no idea where to start! help everyone!!
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SnoopyisAj |
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4th November 2009 09:15 PM Last post by: SnoopyisAj |
Hey i finally signed up after 3 weeks of stalking people on acne.org i finally tried to sign up and join the conversations. and im Aj btw you all can call me anything i hardly care
im 2 weeks into the regimen and so far ive seen the ups and down but i keep by head up and think positive

Thank you feel free to start a conversation(like i want that:P) or just msg me if you have suggestions or questions thanks!
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kevinnader |
13 |
4th November 2009 07:55 PM Last post by: gbaby |
Heyy,
Whats up? I'm new here...got acne...been using burts bees products months..no luck!
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New on here
anybody tried 'Neutrogena on the spot' ? ? ?
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mumov2 |
14 |
4th November 2009 05:13 PM Last post by: c'est la vigne |
Hi ..... I have fairly bad spots on my chin, they just turn up when they fancy at anytime and when one turns up then that turns into a party for them !!
Have tried loads of treatments ..... Clearasil, clean and clear, sudocream etc etc .......was wondering if anybody has tried Neutrogena on the spot ?
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Claira T |
19 |
4th November 2009 05:03 PM Last post by: c'est la vigne |
So hey everybody,
I just started using epiduo after sort of giving up on finding solutions, but still being hopeful, and found this site while researching about it. I think sometimes having acne is one of the reasons I might have gotten turned down for certain jobs. Ya think, realize alot of toher peopple have it, or have it alot worse, and it doesnt'get in tehre way, or maybe it does. After ahiwle I kinda didn't let it bother me and didn't think about it. After awhile I just kind of learned to live with it.. or cover it up, which usually makes it worse or causes those little bumps. And little kids asking if you're sick or what those red dots are on your face can be annoying and embarassing, but kinda funny too haha.. well not really. but yeah anyways. After trying just about everything, I decided to go to a dermatologist and have something prescribed .. we'll see how that works out.
What are you using and how's it working out for you??
P.S. Please read my first message!
And how do I post a default photo on here?
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narlykarley |
24 |
4th November 2009 10:39 AM Last post by: ILoveMyPuppy |
Hello everyone,
I am 20 years old and have had acne since I was in 8th grade. I started going to the derm at age 15 they started me on benzoyle peroxide in the morning, and retin a (trentinoin) at night, this didn't work very well, so they started me on tetracycline along with my other topicals, I didn't really feel like this worked very well, but I stayed with it for a while and saw a little improvement. I stoped going to the derm. about a year later because I didn't have the money, and my acne wasn't that bad. I started using the over the counter acne free program ($20 at walmart) in place of everything else, just so I wasn't stopping medication all together. My face started clearing up, and by the time I was a senior I only had a few bad spots here and there, nothing too serious. I finally thought I was rid of acne for good, until just recently around sept. my face started gettin worse. I decided to go back to the derm. and they started me on a totally differnt program
morning: 1. wash face with skin demensions gly/sal cleanser
2. then put on clydamyacin phosphate gel
Night: 1. Wash face gly/sal cleanser
2. Retin A (trentinoin) gel
3. Nomalands lotion
my face got slowly worse...

A month later I was broken out everywhere I started getting pimples on my nose, forhead, and on the side of my face, (which it hadn't been there since I was younger) The derm told me "Be patient, your face isn't use to all this medication and so all the bacteria is coming out, just give it time" Well I did and 3 weeks later it hadn't changed... so they put me on minocycline... this gave me and upset stomach and severe headaches. So they switched it to tetrocycline. A month later and nothing has changed... My derm now wants to put me on Accutane, but to tell you the truth
I am TERRIFIED!! I don't understand why my acne has all the sudden got worse since I decided to go back to the derm.
I just thought "okay so it's getting a little worse I'll go back and they can clear it up in no time with some topicals", but now I'm getting into all these medications... they want to start me on Accutane in a month, which will be the day after thanksgiving. I've already gone through all the paper work for the I pledge system and gotten on 2 forms of birth control, but I'm really scared to go on it. I wish there was some other way... I heard of people using Manuka Honey on their face and drinking it with hot water or tea... I've also heard of using hydrogen peroxide on your face... these are just home remedies I've found online though and I'm not sure If i should try them first before resulting to Accutane. Any advice would be wonderful..
thanks,
Kar
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DavidBlock |
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4th November 2009 10:20 AM Last post by: abeautifuldisaster |
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Sir Jack Bauer |
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4th November 2009 04:12 AM Last post by: Sir Jack Bauer |
Hi all, finally got round to signing up on here. Looks like a great place and has alrady provided me with some usefull knowledgde.
Anyway a bit about me. I’ve suffered from Acne for an estimated 6 years now. In that time I can never remember a day where I haven’t had any breakouts.
I’m 22 years old (nearly 23), now living back at home after being at uni for 4 years. Ive been aware of this site for a few years but for some unknown reason I never signed up nor have I really looked in depth into the situation. I think I was to afraid by it and ignored it as much as possible. I really wish I had tried to tackle this issue many years ago, but I haven’t so got to deal with the current situation.
I don’t know if it is an appropriate section to talk about my history as I’m new on here. But I’m going to anyway. Please re-direct me if necessary.
So I think I started getting spots way back when I was about 16/17. Back then it was very mild, the odd breakout here and there. It didn’t really bother me that much as literally every lad at school had a few spots. So I just cleansed with some off the shelf cleanser.
But this was no major issue to me then. I don’t know why
So at 18 I went to uni, in the first year after looking pictures it wasn’t that bad either. A few spots here and there, again it didn’t bother me and I just cleansed.
Then towards the end of the my second here things went very downhill. I was very stressed from all of my uni work/girlfriend problems. I had huge breakouts all over my face. Massive spots that stuck around for weeks. I seem to remember going to the doctor, but they were not very helpful so I ignored the situation and kept on cleansing with some of the shelf products.
After a summer of working they calmed down quite a bit to a point where I wasn’t too concerned about them. But after the large breakouts I was heavily scared. Then at the start of year 3 they flared up again. I found this place and started applying Benzoyl Peroxide. This kind of helped but nothing major. So I got the 'Big kit' of here with the, 16 oz. Cleanser, 16 oz. Treatment, 16 oz. Moisturizer. Again this helped somewhat but didn’t clear it up.
At this point I was stupidly giving up with the situation and trying to ignore it as much as possible.
With year 3 over I came home and worked on the farm at home for the summer. To my surprise they started to clear up.

Even got quite confident they were gone and I could have a 'normal' life.
But then back to uni and things went downhill again. Now in my last year at uni the stress really hit in hard. I completely ignored my acne and just cleansed in the morning and night.

But I was told by a friend that dairy products and white bread don’t help. So I have tried to cut these out of my diet.
Now after finishing uni and changing doctors in may this year I finally got some medical advice. I was put on Zinerty and Differin Cream. These worked and after about 2 and a half months my skin was clear. Very few if no breakouts at all. But after 3 months I think my body had got used to it and the breakouts started again.
I have an appointment with the Doctor next week about this. Will see what they recommend then.
Anyway today I had a day off work and the idea popped into my head to do some research. So after lots of reading I found so much new information out. Infact too much. I can’t take it all in.
So with a compulsive buy after some reading on the mens health boards I have bought Peter Thomas Roth Beta Hydroxy Acid 2% Acne Wash 250ml and some Clinique oil control hydrator.
Hopefully will get these in the middle of the week and see how things go.
Now over the course of the last few months I’ve nearly cut out dairy from my diet. I have soya milk and soya spread. I don’t eat chocolate or sweets ( i know they are directly linked but I don’t want to risk it). I try and avoid greasy foods as much as possible and try to eat as healthily as possible.
So I guess what I’m doing on here is hoping to gain some knowledge on how to improve my diet as I am keen on going to the gym and building my muscles up. Also I’d like to find more tips for trying to beat this awful problem I have.
Any general advice on what to do next or where to start looking for information would be welcomed. I know it’s a bit obvious to start reading threads but there are just so many of them that in the information is overwhelming.
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