I decided to post what was essentially a reply to a message from another member regarding my research and findings on alternatives to Clearlight (and Blu-U) treatments. Bear in mind that this is still preliminary, and I am not a doctor, and I might have some holes in my data, so bear with me! But my daughter has been through a lot, and I have made it my mission to find help for her. I am not affiliated with any of the links I give here, and am not intending to promote any particular company. They are just samples of my research.

BTW, in case anyone wonders... the name refers to my old (now deceased) dog named Sheila, who was black border collie mix!

EDIT (JAN 2008): There is a lot of information in this thread, but you can skip to the following thread for a report of the ebay light results for a few members:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/420nm-Blue-light-Treatmen-t182799.html
You should also know my daughter discontinued use of the ebay lights as she felt she was not getting results from them

As you may already know, light in the range of 407-420 nm is effective in some for killing p-acnes bacteria, provided you get sufficient intensity to penetrate the follicles. The FDA approved such therapy and is currently investigating approval of Levulan with blue light for acne. Many doctors are already using this light treatment as it has produced results. Several companies offer high intensity narrow band blue light treatments, usually at 50 -100 dollars a pop. I know in general the blue light therapy works to some degree, because my daughter responded well when we paid about $100 per visit to the doctor with a Clearlight Machine four years ago.


(EDITED: References to a "Shop Light" type of clearlight replacement fixture was deleted per Techguy's reply in this thread showing it to be non-effective)

We found a lower power device sold by a fellow on Ebay which is said to be a specially manufactured T5 Quad FML type compact size fluorescent bulb to produce the 420 nm light that fits in a desk top lamp fixture (making it ideal for use while lying in bed or on the floor). I decided to buy this for my daughter.

EDIT: 11-2-07 She has been using it for almost 8 weeks now, and I believe she is getting some clearing effects from the light. She has not had any more cystic acne since using it and very few smaller breakouts. This is only anecdotal, so be sure to read later posts by other members who might be testing this same device. EDIT 1-17-08 She has decided to discontinue use of the ebay lights.

Light intensity drops quickly as distance increases. Each time you double the distance from a light, you cut the intensity to 1/4. On the other hand, when you get twice as close to a light, you increase the intensity by 4X. The doctor office clearlight lamps are HOT and so you have to be further away than using cooler flourescent bulbs. This means you can get much closer to a lower wattage fluor and get comparable results.

Fluorescent bulbs usually are rated for light output (lumens) compared to a regular light bulbs. 13 watts fluor = 60 watts regular. 27 watt fluor puts out the same light as about 130-150 watts of a regular bulb (maybe 1500 lumens). I ordered a special light bulb from the ebay merchant who had the bulbs specially manufactured and they are 420 nm (according to what is printed on the bulb). I purchased the lamp and first bulb at auction and then got an extra bulb. (you can only get the bulb if you buy the entire fixture first on auction), and then I got an extra bulb and desklamp fixture from home depot. My daughter is using both (so total equivallent wattage is around 260 to 280 watts from two 27 watt fluors) with about 3000 lumens. She keeps the light about 8-12 inches from her face for 15-20 minutes and wears eye goggles.

In doing my research, I found that 420nm lights are fairly common in a place you might not consider: fish tanks. The 420 nm deep blue light is exactly what fish tank owners want for making the water look like deep ocean colors, along with a 10000K type bulb for enhancing sunlight effects. I considered making my own light for her, but the "fishtank" lights are not as convenient to use while lying down in bed. But they will work if you set them on a desk and face them (more on this below) or you could create short legs and then place yourself under the fixture which is propped up on 12-18 inch legs on four sides. Be sure to protect your eyes with any bright light!

Here are some links regarding the light we bought on ebay (i guess I am giving this guy free advertising!) As I mentioned, I then bought an extra desk lamp fixture at home depot that uses this type of bulb. They also carry the one the guy actually sells on ebay for $19 (Hampton Bay model 1127, uses FML27 bulb, and I think the HomeDepot SKU # is 207142, apparently also called "Lights of America" model 1127HB, not available on line but only at certain stores. Try doing a google search with "Light of America 1127HB" and see if it comes up.

BUT -- his special desk size FML 27W 420nm fluor bulb is apparently not available anywhere on the net. I have searched extensively. He says he had it specially manufactured for him, and that seems to be the case.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Acne-Treatment-FDA-APP...1QQcmdZViewItem

If that link is expired, search on ebay using the following word group:

Acne Treatment FDA APPROvED Blue Light Therapy No chem!

His lamp is a quad, T5 FML 27W. It has four prongs and fixtures that hold these type of bulbs are common and usually are desklamps. Actual pictures of his lamp are at the end of this post below. There were many testimonials about this guy's ebay light, and i wrote to several people who had bought it. They said it was helping them, but the jury is still out so don't go out and order one on my say so just yet!

Here are supposed light spectrums for true actinic 03 bulbs--the closer to 420 the better, but watch out for UV in the light, as that would be not so good for you. UV is roughly below 400 nm extending into the 300nm range.

http://www.bestgrowlights.com/site/403863/page/436991 (see pure actinic blue spectrum on top)

http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/seventh/phitld15.gif (true actinic)

I know you can get much higher wattage for less money. For example, there are fixtures that can hold 2 x 96 watt bulbs i think. When they sell the fixtures, they usually ship with 1 actinic and 1 10000K bulbs (this combines the deep blue and sunlight spectrum) but you can simply buy an extra actinic and replace the 10000K bulb. See first link below

http://www.petsolutions.com/Lunar-Aqualigh...402+C99999.aspx

In the above link, the 24 inch fixture provides 2 x 65 watts *IF* you bought an extra actinic bulb to replace the 10000K bulb they ship with. We are trying my daughter with the ebay product, plus one extra bulb (2 x 27 watts currently), so this 24 inch fixture is more than double the 420 nm light output and might be a better use of your money, if you can comfortably figure out how to use the 24 inch fixture (or create a base and arm to hold it above a bed). I thought of using the kind of stands that musicians use for microphones, with a heavy base and long arm. If you do try it, please let me know or post to the message boards!

However, I do not know for sure if these lights have any significant UV components, so maybe someone else can research this issue. I am going to make a logical leap and assume the manufacturers would not want UV components in these lights because folks sit close to, and stare at their fishtanks and if people starting getting eye damage, it might be bad for business....

One additional thought. It can take up to 4 weeks to start to see results, assuming we have a light with sufficient intensity to produce results at all. Even in the Doctor office, it was about 3 weeks for results to appear, but that was only 1 time per week, and with these lights, you can do it every day. As I recall, with the Clearlight treatments, there was a period of increased breakouts as the light killed deep bacteria during the initial weeks.

Hope this helps! The Ebay lamps are shown below..... Higher detail pics are on the last post of page 2 of this thread

Great post!

I will be buying the 24" fixture with 2 x 65 watt True Actinic bulbs. Just need to find a place wiling to ship to Canada. I will probably drill holes in the fixture and attach legs on the 4 corners. Once done, I will post pics but first I have to get my hands on it!

Great mike: I will be very interested in finding out if you have any results! -Dan

Dan,

Thanks for the informative posting, expecially the parts about using aquarium lights. If I may add a few comments and clarifications:

The "Clearlight Relpacement Bulbs" (sic - vendor's spelling error) may or may not be the same as used in the professional units. They are at least claimed to be the same Metal Halide technology as supposedly used by the doctor's office ClearLight units. Buy at your own risk and understand that Metal Halide bulbs require very special fixtures. Note while they superficially look like the bulbs from the old torchieres, they are different. The torchieres used a linear quartz halogen incandescent bulb, not metal halide. The metal halides are different technology and have a different base/connector. Metal halides also require a special ballast. That takes me to the next related point...

The second link for the same company's "equivalent" AcneLight Therapy System contains what I feel to be terrible misrepresentations. What they are really selling is a couple of 500w quartz-halogen shop lights using the same quartz-halogen type bulbs as used in the old torchieres (except that shoplights are 500w vs 200-300w for torchieres). All these guys appear to have done is put a piece of filter material (dichroic filter) on top of the bulbs. You may as well buy a pair of Home Depot $15 halogen shoplights (except the dichroic filters might cut some of the superfluous non-blue light and heat).

It is important to realize that a 500w quartz-halogen bulb with a filter cutting out all but the blue will yield VASTLY less actual blue light than a lower wattage special blue-emitting metal halide bulb, blue fluroescent, or blue LED.

That cosmeticlasercenter.net misrepresents their system as equivalent to the high-intensity lamps used in the doctor's office should make anyone suspicious of their other claims and steer clear. I have emailed them a request for explanation of their claims, but they have not responded.

Your info on aquarium lights is excellent. I am about to try a couple of different aquarium lights. Fluorescent bulbs at 420nm (usually called Actinic 03) and violet-blue LEDs at 415nm are both pretty efficient. I have not experimented, but would guess that 45watts of actinic 03 aquarium fluorescents should be *very* roughly equivalent to a single SciArts/Enlux 45w 415nm LED bulb. The primary differences are that the LED bulb is a point source radiating out a conical shaped beam, while the fluorescents provide a larger more diffuse source. IF you can get all the light onto the area of interest, they should be very roughly equivalent. With the LED you will want to carefully aim it and pick your distance. With the fluorescent the result is theorectically not quite as distance sensitive, but it may be hard to get a big enough percentage of the light onto your face. I'm guessing that in practice you will just put both as close as practical. (BTW, I've asked Sci-Arts to try to stock the spot-light version of the Enlux LED rather than the flood-light version as I think it will provide a more convenient working distance (per my other post at http://www.acne.org/messageboard/forums.html...6864 ) Disclaimer - I am guilty of not having tried any of this so it's a bit theoretical, but from an engineer with some technical lighting experience.

I was about to recommend trying the 2x9w mini-aquarium lights, but now realize that's exactly what Mikeye said he is testing in the response to my earlier post referenced above. Anyway, you can also buy them at Aquabuys.com for a few dollars less ($27.99)

http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?...Product_Count=2
and a second 420nm bulb for $4.99 (as the unit intially comes with one 420nm bulb and one white bulb)

http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?...Product_Count=9

I would think that two three of these units (4-6 bulbs totaling 36-72 watts) would make a reasonable unit.

Unfortunately unless one measures actual output at the proper wavelength it's hard to know the exact right dose time. But it can't hurt to try!

techguy

Couple of additional comments

Fluorescent aquarium lamps are sold in a variety of color mixes. You want one that provides light at primarily 415-420nm (violet, even though it is called blue). The term Actinic is used to refer to lamps that are primarily blue and are used to drive photosynthesis.

The term "Actinic 03" usually but not always refers to lamps whose peak is at 420nm. There are also other actinic lamps whose peak is at 460nm and Dual-Actinics", which provide some mix of 420, 420 and white light. Output other than 415-420nm is wasteful so stick to "Actinic 03, preferably ones specifically labeled as having their primary output at 420nm.

It is also very important to note that you do NOT want significant UV output. The "Actinic 05" lamps (often used for bug zappers) output a lot of UVA and MUST NOT be used.

On a separate note:
I have not seen any research comparing natural sunlight to blue light. The sun is incredibly bright and sunscreen, even ones with UVA protection, don't block much visible blue-violet at 415nm (or else they would have a colored tint to them).

So the obvious question is whether Blue Light therapy is worth it for people who get more than a few minutes of natural daylight each day versus its benefits being limited to people who do not get much natural sunlight.

Good comments, Techguy. The fish tank lights seem to come in two flavors as you say, true actinic 03 type advertised to be 420 nm and "super" actinic which appear to be more in the 470 nm range based on what I have read.

Have you done any research to determine the range of frequency of light that is actually reflected by using sunscreen? In other words, with sunscreen, do you filter out a little bit of all light frequencies, or only light from 450 nm and down, or from, say, 400 nm and down? Are there any charts showing how sunscreens perform in this regard?

One additional question. Do you have any idea what type of fixture could be created to use the so-called Clearlight replacement bulb shown on that company's website? Is it 110 volt? What type of bulb is that? -Dan

Excellent points, Techguy, and thanks for commenting on those "shop lights". I wondered why, if they were actually using the real clearlight replacement bulb, that the light was deep blue and deep red. That explains it. I will edit my first post to make sure that is not suggested anymore. Thanks again for your input. -Dan

Like Techguy mentioned in his post, I've been using the Coralife Aqualight fixture with 2 x 9W True 03 Actinic lamps. Here are some pics:

http://i24.tinypic.com/347dvll.jpg
http://i21.tinypic.com/fx5r93.jpg
http://i24.tinypic.com/2ebtyly.jpg
http://i23.tinypic.com/ye901.jpg

The unit is quite small, now I've been using this for 1 week and haven't noticed much difference. The lighting is perfect and peaks at 420nm - as you can see the violet is exactly what you want. However, I believe 2 x 9W is just too weak and is unable to penetrate my skin the way the sun does. Therefore, I will be getting another aqualight fixture that uses 2 X 65W lamp! Now that is a lot of power and if that doesn't work then I will give up on the Aqualight idea.

Also, the reason why I decided to try the aqualight is because my skin does very well when I'm in the sun a lot, in other words, the sun is very good for my skin but unfortunately up here in Canada the winters are freezing cold so I'll see how the light works and keep everyone posted!

Three years ago, I also had noticed that my daughter seemed to clear up when she was in the sun (at the beach) and in the ocean (I presumed salt, being toxic to bacteria). Maybe salt water and sun are a really good combination? I began my research back then to find why light was beneficial to reducing her acne, and that's when I stumbled on the Clearlight treatments. The problem is that with long exposure to sunlight you are bound to get some sun damage, and if you use sunscreen, you probably are reflecting much of what you need in the deep blue, almost UV spectrum (not to mention the effect sunscreens have on people who already have pore issues. I hope these lights work well for us. -Dan

Well like techguy mentioned we are still not sure if the BLUE LIGHT does the same as the SUN LIGHT. Just that the British study tested using 420nm light which seemed to have worked.

I'll keep everyone posted whether the higher wattage is more effective.

Regarding sunscreen and whether it filters much visible. If sunscreen filtered the visible light, it would appear as a dark and/or a tinted material on your skin (or reflective like white zinc-oxide). Since it does not, it can only be filtering the portion of the spectrum that's invisible, namely the UV.

BTW, since the filter is not a sharp cuttoff the real problem with sunscreens is that they don't even filter the longest wavelengths of the UVA (just below 400nm). If they tried to make it filter out all UVA, they would run into the problem I stated above about it losing its nice invisible look. So, I would not worry about sunscreen filtering out the 420nm violet/blue that kills acne bacteria.

A futher update on 420nm blue aquarium fluorescents. I found another site that has reasonable prices (even cheaper than aquabuys) . The site is www.store.seacorals.net.
The little dual 18w units are only $24.99. This is the same unit that Mikeye bought, but a little cheaper. You need to buy a extra 420nm bulb at $4.99. Note - I agree with Mikeye that you need more than one of these for enough light.
http://store.seacorals.net/9coaq18wdoli.html

2. They also sell a slightly larger 36w model for $44.99, but both bulbs would need to be swapped out as each bulb is a 50/50 bulb (420nm/white) and I couldn't find that bulb size (9" 18w) in a 420nm color, only the split 420/white.

I wouldn't want to go much longer than a 16' bulb as it's hard to get the light from the ends of the bulbs onto your face (unless it's for one's shoulders).

I just picked up a used aquarium light hood today with two 12.5" dual-tube sockets for $35 today on craigslist locally and am ordering an Actinic 03 Blue bulb for $16 (it had one already). I may also add one or two of those little 18w units listed above for $30 each and have everything one needs for less than one expensive LED bulb (and with more total output).
Of course if you only want to spot treat a fairly small area, the SciArts/Enlux 45w LED for $129 may be just as good or better. BUT for larger areas, I think my solution will work better). Do note, fluorescent tubes lose some output after something over 500-1500 hrs, but that's a long time away.

This is what I'm getting:

http://store.seacorals.net/co24aq13doli.html

24" retro fit with 2 x 65W True 03 Actinic lamps. That's 130W in total. However, because the lamps are 21" I will not be able to have all the light output directed to my face.

That unit is a "retrofit kit" meaning it is separate parts with the ballast set up to be remotely mnounted. That's great if you want to build your own. For $5.00 more, though, you can order in in a finished enclosure:
http://store.seacorals.net/24coaq13doli.html

As you prbably already know, in both cases you need to swap one bulb as it comes with one blue and one white bulb.

I emailed Seacorals.net and I still haven't received a reply. I emailed them regarding shipping to Canada and stock availability because sometimes they don't have these aqualights in stock and after you paid you have to wait like 1-2 weeks before they ship.

Also, I'm going retro fit because I'm going to make a stand for this kit. It is a lot easier to modify the retro than the alumium fixture. But it all depends on how you use it.

Here's another interesting option if you are willing to mount stuff yourself. Aquarium Hobbyist Supply ( http://www.ahsupply.com/index.html ) has kits with everything you need. They have kits for dual-21" (2x55w=110) as well as dual 17.5" long (2=36w=72w total). The 17.5" doesn't have quite as much power, but is a more appropriate length. I suspect that the dual 21" at 110w is very close to the same light output as the Seacoral units. They sell nice wood enslosures too. They also say they ship to Canada (see link on home page).

Thanks to all for the various replies. Techguy, do you have any idea what type of fixture would be necessary to use the clearlight "replacement" bulb, assuming it worked, of course. Does that metal halide lamp require a special ballast or voltage higher than 110? And do you have any source for a spectrum analyzer to check what a light puts out, provided we had a sample bulb and fixture?

Can't recall who said this, but I read that 420 nm light is second in effectiveness, with the first most effective frequency being 320nm, in the harmful UV range. Do sunscreens allow this 320 nm UV frequency to get through? Your point is well taken, in that if you use a sunscreen that allows 420, blocks UVA and UVB, but then also allows maybe 320nm through, you are better to use the sun with a sunscreen, than to use any of our lights.

Here's from a website: "Who pays attention to all that scientific garbeldy-gook about sun rays? But you need to know WHY your dermatologist recommends daily use of a sunblock or sunscreen, even if you're not going out in the sun. Here's the low-down. UVB rays make the skin turn red and feel hot; in other words, UVB rays warn that it's time to get out of the sun or slather more sunscreen on your body. UVA rays are not only silent but UVA rays account for 80% of ultraviolet damage to the skin. UVA light penetrates windows of cars and buildings, whether the sun's out or not, and they leave no visible signature on your skin. So now you know...."

And here's a link on UV frequencies:

http://www.homephototherapy.com/spectrum-all.htm

And this shows the "burn zone":

http://www.homephototherapy.com/spectrum-uvb-nb.htm


-Dan